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Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#61

Post by carbonatedmilk »

Hi Andrew, A bit different from usual HN fare, but here's a quick nerdy breakdown of how to build power / advocate / get laws changed.

You have an audacious, but specific goal. That's great!

You have at least one person who cares about the outcome of your campaign (you). That's good, you'll need more

1. You need a power map. https://commonslibrary.org/power-mapping/ is a good resource to get you started. Get together some mates, preferably ones who've interacted with the political process before (They'll be more likely to know the players) and start mapping. Once you've got a good power map, that's a good time to reflect: Does this campaign still seem achievable? Is there too much power in the top-left quadrant, and not enough in the top right / middle? Movements that lack a good 'center' of persuadable+influential actors generally fizzle out, so you might want to consider tailoring your campaign goal.

2. You need a theory of change. How do we get from here to there? https://www.thechangeagency.org/?s=theory+of+change is a good start. Don't lock in to a particular tactic too readily, and be prepared to iterate

3. You need power. This both informs and influences your theory of change. Is your power electoral, financial, social?

4. You need a logframe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_framework_approach How will you know if your campaign is working? What intermediate metrics of success can you identify that are both impactful and measurable?

There's a mountain of campaign theory and literature to read, but that's enough to get you started assessing if your campaign is a goer at all. Hope it helps

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#62

Post by andrewstuart »

throwaway9139 wrote: post #60
andrewstuart wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The fastest way to achieve this change would be to make a vast fortune The irony is that had I made a vast fortune, I would likely not care about this issue. I've noticed that people who own houses don't give a second's thought to this issue, or they don't see it is a problem. In fact, the opposite - if you own a house then you want to opposite of what I am campaigning for - you want prices to keep skyrocketing to…

Hi, Australian here living in Sydney. I'm a very happy renter. Renting in Sydney annually is way under 5% of the cost of owning a house. Even if I could afford to buy a house in Sydney, I wouldn't dream of it. It's much more economically sensible to rent. The money I save in opportunity costs from renting is huge. I can invest the difference between rent and mortgage repayments and don't need to be concerned with mai…

How old are you?

$10 says every passing year will make you less happy with renting.

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#63

Post by throwaway9139 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #62
throwaway9139 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, Australian here living in Sydney. I'm a very happy renter. Renting in Sydney annually is way under 5% of the cost of owning a house. Even if I could afford to buy a house in Sydney, I wouldn't dream of it. It's much more economically sensible to rent. The money I save in opportunity costs from renting is huge. I can invest the difference between rent and mortgage repayments and don't need to be concerned with mai…

How old are you? $10 says every passing year will make you less happy with renting.

I'm 45, I've been renting for 25 years. I love the flexibility. I've never been forced to move by a landlord, though I admit it could happen, but I'd be fine to move. I've moved voluntarily about 15 times in those last 25 years.

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#64

Post by 0xbadc0de5 »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #19
akomtu wrote: post #11

The social movement you want is called marxism - a highly efficient framework to use a divide a society to your benefit. In your case, it's the divide between those who have homes and those who don't.

You’re right about marxism but your framing about dividing society seems unhelpful in my opinion. Marxism is about recognizing power imbalances in society and understanding how to use our collective power for our benefit rather than the benefit of the few. Focusing on division seems a poor way to present this.

Many of the first to be sent to the Gulags were also true believers. You should study your history. Marx wasn't the great intellectual you might think and Marxist Communism never ends well for anyone.

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#65

Post by SequoiaHope »

0xbadc0de5 wrote: post #64
SequoiaHope wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right about marxism but your framing about dividing society seems unhelpful in my opinion. Marxism is about recognizing power imbalances in society and understanding how to use our collective power for our benefit rather than the benefit of the few. Focusing on division seems a poor way to present this.

Many of the first to be sent to the Gulags were also true believers. You should study your history. Marx wasn't the great intellectual you might think and Marxist Communism never ends well for anyone.

Trust me, I’m a libertarian communist meaning I oppose the use of the State or any force. There are no gulags nor prisons in my imagined future. Marx’s economic analysis of different ways to organize production is invaluable even in a completely voluntary society, which is what I advocate for. I want to build systems that help people the way Wikipedia helps people - in a “take it or leave it” totally voluntary way.

Even if you ignore Marx completely, the basic idea that “perhaps it is bad for most people to have society ruled by a small elite” is a quite reasonable one to have.

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#67

Post by dredmorbius »

gavman wrote: post #14

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but in thinking about these issues here's a quote I heard that has always resonated with me: > When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world. I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation. When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my famil…

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

-- George Bernard Shaw

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#68

Post by wenc »

tunesmith wrote: post #21

It might be worth reviewing this essay from aaronsw: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/theoryofchange Mainly because calls to action are often about whipping up passion about an issue, without often doing the work to identify the actions that would actually be productive.

This is good. I relate to it because Theory of Change sounds like a form of future backwards thinking, or working backwards, for non-profits or social movements. It is difficult strategy to apply well, but that pays off tremendously to those who are able to do it. It doesn't guarantee success but at least it stacks the odds in your favor.

Aaron Swartz's example of working backwards to figure out how to write a bestseller is not too different from Youtubers working backwards to figure what content to make that will generate views. It's about identifying the concrete steps that will take you from one state to the next, finally culminating in the goal.

The one thing missing from this approach however, is an explicit treatment of feedback loops (or "reflexivity" -- something which Soros claims to have applied to economic systems). It's a different way of thinking, but people who grasp systems and feedback loops often have a more realistic understanding of the world than people who think linearly and simplistically.

When you work backwards, you can't just think of what you need to do to get there, but also the 5-6 other 2nd, 3rd or higher order effects that will occur (including an accounting of adversarial forces). These will have unintended consequences that can either help or impede you. You need to find ways to enter positive feedback loops and exit negative ones. If you're able to enter a positive feedback loop, you'll have a flywheel that will amplify itself.

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#69

Post by sifar »

dredmorbius wrote: post #67
gavman wrote: post #14

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but in thinking about these issues here's a quote I heard that has always resonated with me: > When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world. I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation. When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my famil…

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” -- George Bernard Shaw

I used to admire this but have come to realize it is true in certain context only, while the GP one is much more humble

The key word here is change v/s progress.

The classic example of this is commuting via car v/s bicycle. The staggering amount of resources dedicated to solving this problem can be termed as progress with better infrastructure, cars (self-driving even) - contrast it against the change that those who can change to commute via bicycle.

We can only know progress in hindsight and only at things that can be quantified. It is self-serving in that sense, when you exclude the non-measurable.

Re: Ask HN: How do I create a social movement to change the world?

#70

Post by ChrisArchitect »

Not spam but weird, lengthy post here man. Why not write all this in a letter/blog post on your site and share it here instead of this page long post. Point ppl somewhere to read your idea and request for help.

Change the title of this post from generic ask HN, it's ridiculous. Should be like Ask HN: idea to create a movement for real estate rebellion in Australia.

I mean the generic bait ask HN titles are the worst. What is your actual topic and most of the time you should be searching other threads instead of attracting upvotes unnecessarily on this stuff.

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