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This website has 81% battery power remaining

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Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#81
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there are 100 servers but only one is needed to handle the user traffic, then 99% of those servers are considered to be "doing nothing" even if they are powered on and running software. At the end of the day, running that software is meaningless to the business and to customers.

I think the point was that "ready and waiting" is valuable to the end customer, even if it only makes a different later when they are doing something. It's kind-of like how firemen are valuable even when they are not getting calls, because they are available for low latency response instead of busy doing something else. The idea that this is just wasted computation is therefore somewhat disingenuous.

Oh, but it could be improved. Linux can cold boot under 300ms (easier if you control the BIOS and can tune it for speed, like coreboot can), faster if resuming from RAM. That should allow you to perform load-balancing while powering off the extra capacity (using wake-on-lan).

If load becomes too important for the SBC or close to capacity, wake the server, and perform a handover once it's up. You can either hold the packets and use the SBC as a proxy, or change your router's config to point to the newly awakened server (alternatively, just exchange IP or MAC addresses). With a bit of magic to avoid closing existing connections (I believe home ISP routers should keep NAT connections open if a port forward is changed), it would work. Obviously it's even easier with a proper load balancer.

edit: actually even a router might be able to handle low loads

There seems to be surprisingly little interest in this (closest I found was https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/issues/89271 ).

So yeah, it's still wasted power and computation in my opinion. "Ready and waiting" should not take 100W per server, but be closer to 0.1W (WoL), or lower if managing state from a central node. I guess it's not worth optimizing for most people, and big cloud probably does something similar already.

In a way, it's a bit like big.LITTLE with additional latency: small, power-efficient vs big, fast, inefficient for small loads.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#82

I think this also shows how inefficient modern website hosting is. The fact that this person was able to get a raspberry pi to host the #1 website on HN powered by a small 50 watt solar panel is very cool (meaning maybe 10w average power budget), but also shouldn't be as uncommon as it is today. To put this in perspective, a modern server uses 50-100 watts idle doing nothing, and many more under load. To handle the t…

I hate to be that old foggy but, aren’t websites just getting worse and bloated with JS crap? I’ve had a couple websites I use daily for work just get flashy new interfaces which causes 1/3 to 1/2 second delays in the interface which used to not exist, previously they just had normal page load delays. For example, SalesForce Lightning, their UI overhaul. Old UI is mainly just flat HTML with some loading on fields. Ne…

I agree with this so so much.

The problem is too much reliances on frameworks and add on libraries.

Developers will import an entire framework that for the benefit of a single feature. It's mind blowing to look at the amount of js includes for seemingly simple sites.

Stackoverflow answers that direct you to import a library or framework should be banned in most cases.

I will often have to scroll past several answers that say to import a library before finding a simple and functional answer that uses only a few lines of code down near the bottom. Which in my eyes is the real answer. I often wonder if there's a behind the scenes effort on SO to promote certain includes.

The entire ecosystem of some languages / implementations relies on this far too heavily.

We are seeing some of the consequences other than just bloated systems from this style of coding with malicious node packages.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#83
post #39

Small technical nit: I love the dithered images and the retro feel, but their CSS should specify `image-rendering: pixelated` to make sure browsers don't interpolate the pixels.

Whoa, TIL. It actually makes quite a big difference. Nevertheless I don't actually think being pixelated is much of a stylistic choice.

Here [1] they explain how they use dithering to minimise their bandwidth and computational costs.

[1] - https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/09/how-to-build-a-low...

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of the web would probably be better off if it were

I think so, WordPress that isnt cached to a frozen state on the backend is kind of silly in my eyes, the only exception would be comments, but you could hack around that by using Disqus or something, voila.

I agree, but comments could also be static. Have a service handle comment submission, regenerate the page a bit later. If displaying to the user is an issue, do it client side. Most websites use a moderation queue anyway.

One could even generate a dedicated HTML page for the comments, and include it in an iframe, although inlining them is probably more performant.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and bloated with JS crap? CSS animations too , especially the ones that use infinite.

Nothing to do with site hosting. css animations don't eat the server's CPU; nor does JS bloat (other than bandwidth).

yes, I wanted to add that css (especially infinite)animation also eats the client energy and CPU.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#86
post #25

> This was caused by a software upgrade of the Linux kernel, which increased the average power use of the server from 1.19 to 1.49 watts I wonder what change in the linux kernel caused the increased load. Someone out there is responsible for this crime!

This is an area where Apple is way ahead of everyone else. A code change that increases power usage 25% wouldn’t make it past CI at Apple.

Sorry, what does CI stand for?

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#87
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there are 100 servers but only one is needed to handle the user traffic, then 99% of those servers are considered to be "doing nothing" even if they are powered on and running software. At the end of the day, running that software is meaningless to the business and to customers.

I think the point was that "ready and waiting" is valuable to the end customer, even if it only makes a different later when they are doing something. It's kind-of like how firemen are valuable even when they are not getting calls, because they are available for low latency response instead of busy doing something else. The idea that this is just wasted computation is therefore somewhat disingenuous.

Still, if you switch 100 servers with 100 owners all waiting for connections for 1 server hosting 100 sites and 99 other in a low power mode waiting for traffic, you save a lot of power and doesn't lose much.

Anyway, it would be waste even if you couldn't save it at all. "Waste" is simply a name for things we consume but don't actually use. All industries use that term.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#88
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be that old foggy but, aren’t websites just getting worse and bloated with JS crap? I’ve had a couple websites I use daily for work just get flashy new interfaces which causes 1/3 to 1/2 second delays in the interface which used to not exist, previously they just had normal page load delays. For example, SalesForce Lightning, their UI overhaul. Old UI is mainly just flat HTML with some loading on fields. Ne…

it's gotten out of hand imo. page load times take longer than when I was browsing the web on dialup in many cases.

I don't know, we're currently rewriting our UI from the classic "PHP renders everything with almost zero JS" to the more modern "single page application with a crap ton of JS" and the new UI feels much faster to me. The old way was to resend and rerender everything on each click, which is problematic for complex UIs with a lot of data.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and bloated with JS crap? CSS animations too , especially the ones that use infinite.

I like a good clean CSS animation! They can be very short and meaningful. Maybe not for daily driver UI but somethings I like them. Infinite scrolling could be annoying with animations though, I grant you that.

My issue is with infinite animations, constantly moving/blinking stuff. They also do not have same effect on different system configurations so you might not notice any effect on your dev machine and on users it makes the page unusable, and some are super distracting).

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#90

My own battery + solar powered blog [0] is 100% inspired by lowtechmagazine. I am based in The Netherlands and due to my sub optimal location, I have to cheat in the winter by recharging from mains about weekly. I still do get some sun, but nowhere nearly enough to get through the day, let alone the night. [0]: https://louwrentius.com/this-blog-is-now-running-on-solar-po... And lead acid is also terrible for solar ap…

Lead acid have the advantage of being easy to buy and needing no balancer. Also they don't get damaged by overcharging. They handle full deplation way better too. Also lower initial cost.
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