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Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

latimes.com

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Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#61

Post by clairity »

m4nu3l wrote: post #39
amelius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that self-driving is almost entirely about edge-cases. And machine learning can optimistically only reach about 99% accuracy, so that last 1% of edge cases is where the real problem lies.

I'd be curious to know what definition of edge-case you are using. I think self-driving can't be entirely about edge-cases by definition (of edge-case).

you’re talking about the definition of a single edge case. you can argue about the exact proportion, but it’s entirely within the realm of possibility that real world conditions are dominated by an amalgamation of many different edge cases that together add up to many percentage points.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#62

Post by TigeriusKirk »

mcot2 wrote: post #16
sva_ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://mobile.twitter.com/taylorogan/status/146940457943982... Damn, the part where he tried to take over and the car wouldn't let him for a while, was downright scary Reminds me of a famous quote... > "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that." I fell like there should be a hardware way of taking over that overwrites anything the software does.

There is. Tapping the brake pedal.

I believe Tesla testing FSD on open roads is probably going to cost lives. I think they're aware of the game they're playing and they're taking more risks than is responsible.

I also believe the driver in that video doesn't have the level-headedness to be testing anything anywhere. Which is a criticism both of the driver and of Tesla for letting people like that run the software on the open road.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#63

Post by brewdad »

m4nu3l wrote: post #39
amelius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that self-driving is almost entirely about edge-cases. And machine learning can optimistically only reach about 99% accuracy, so that last 1% of edge cases is where the real problem lies.

I'd be curious to know what definition of edge-case you are using. I think self-driving can't be entirely about edge-cases by definition (of edge-case).

Sure 99% of driving is pointing the car straight, keeping it between the lines and avoiding the car in front of you. That's easy and has been essentially solved by dozens of car makers.

The "edge" cases are pretty much everything else. There are a near infinite number of possibilities here and it is clear that no one is anywhere near close enough to covering them all. Stopping for a pedestrian when turning right is not some completely unforeseeable event.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#65

Post by dhruvdh »

sva_ wrote: post #4
gadnuk wrote: post #2

As they should, from all agencies involved. It is absolutely horrifying to see Tesla do this open beta test on public roads when no other non-Tesla entities (other cars, pedestrians, motorcyclists, bicyclists, etc) consented to being a part of a reckless experiment. Moreover, Tesla influencers on social media tend to cherry pick and show only the nicer parts of their FSD Beta drives where no incidents and disengageme…

> https://mobile.twitter.com/taylorogan/status/146940457943982... Damn, the part where he tried to take over and the car wouldn't let him for a while, was downright scary Reminds me of a famous quote... > "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that." I fell like there should be a hardware way of taking over that overwrites anything the software does.

I’ve read on r/selfdriving that he did take over, the “take over” alert just lingers for a few seconds.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#66

Post by TigeriusKirk »

mygoodaccount wrote: post #33
mcot2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is actively participating in the beta you couldn’t be more off base in your assertions. It sucks to see progress stifled by people that have no idea what they are talking about. With the thousands of people actively using the FSD Beta safely, show me significant evidence of an increased level of accidents that have occured. You can’t because the evidence does not exist.

Tesla doesn't publish data nor shares it with the NHTSA, so that's very difficult to do. The only """data""" we have are videos uploaded to YouTube by a select group of Tesla owners who have access to the beta. Even ignoring the bias in videos selected for upload by the beta testers, every single city driving clip I've seen has several illegal maneuvers and many more disengagements.

That's more an indication of the clips you select to watch. I've seen half hour videos with no problems whatsoever.

We can't really draw any conclusions from self-selected video clips.

I do think the data should be openly available for all to study an analyze. If that helps competitors, then that's the price for testing in public.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#67

Post by mcot2 »

ModernMech wrote: post #34

I really thought the breaks would have been slammed on Tesla's shipping of autonomous car software after the incident where the guy was decapitated by a tractor trailer.

At that time the system was merely lane keep with adaptive cruise control. Any system would have had a similar result at that time.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#68

Post by Stupulous »

gadnuk wrote: post #15
andrewtbham wrote: post #11

[flagged]

"This is the same woman that stated "fuck elon musk" on twitter," You are wrong. Lena Gonzalez (D-Long Beach) != Lorena Gonzalez (D-San Diego)

Good catch. Tricky because Lena Gonzalez (D-Long Beach) || Lorena Gonzalez (D-San Diego) == Lena Gonzalez (D-)

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#69

Post by qbasic_forever »

jimkleiber wrote: post #54
thinkmassive wrote: post #23

Note that there are two “FSD Beta” programs: 1. The paid software unlock for “Full Self Driving” (currently in “beta”) available to everyone, which provides automatic driving from on-ramp to off-ramp, and a handful of parking features like auto-park and summon: https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot#usingautopilot 2. The invite-only “FSD Beta” that unlocks the above FSD features on city streets, which is available t…

I feel confused why 1) they would call both programs by the same name (arguing that an acronym is pretty much the same name) and 2) why the government even allows them to call it Full Self Driving, when there are levels of autonomous driving and I imagine most would assume Full means the highest level, which, Tesla has not yet achieved from everything I've read.

If you wanted to stall and mire an investigation in process then having two separate systems named almost exactly the same thing and constantly quibbling over semantics of them would be a good way to do it.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#70

Post by Jxl180 »

mcot2 wrote: post #57

Actual user of the beta here. Happy to answer any questions that are honest. My opinion is let the technology develop in the open, warts and all.

My delivery isn’t until June but I’ve held off on buying FSD (maybe I’ll enable it for the month when I do a long trip), but I’m worried about this fantom braking issue I’ve heard about.
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