11–20 of 114 posts
The Spartan kings (supposedly) come from two lines of descendants of Heracles, Eurysthenes and Procles, who are said to have come to and conquered Sparta (the Spartans did not think they were native to the land). To kill one at birth would probably be a laughable idea to a Spartan.
I also see at least one comment here making this same argument.
The article covers the evidence against, including, that disabled ancient Greeks lived to adulthood.
The evidence cited in favor is Plutarch's assertion, and that "other societies" do it.
That last is particularly weak. Plutarch's assertion wasn't that parents who couldn't afford children would leave them exposed, but that the Ancients would by policy submit the babies to an examining council who would order that disabled babies be exposed.
So all we have in favor, really, is Plutarch's say-so. Given that he wrote this 700 years later, this evidence is pretty weak, too.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
When we're talking about Spartans, we're talking about the Spartan aristocracy, no? Halo's Spartans make sense if you think about them as a traumatized and brutalized society.
> When we're talking about Spartans, we're talking about the Spartan aristocracy, no? I am pretty sure you are right. To the ancient writers, slaves were all but invisible, except perhaps as a measure of a slave-holder's wealth, or when, like Spartacus, they upturned the 'natural order' of society, and lesser nominally-free persons were not much more thought of. A slave's child was a return on a slave-holder's invest…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
When we're talking about Spartans, we're talking about the Spartan aristocracy, no? Halo's Spartans make sense if you think about them as a traumatized and brutalized society.
> When we're talking about Spartans, we're talking about the Spartan aristocracy, no? I am pretty sure you are right. To the ancient writers, slaves were all but invisible, except perhaps as a measure of a slave-holder's wealth, or when, like Spartacus, they upturned the 'natural order' of society, and lesser nominally-free persons were not much more thought of. A slave's child was a return on a slave-holder's invest…
"Cult" isn't the word I'd use for it. The main point of that particular post is comparing the written sources' description of Spartan agoge to modern child soldiers... and our sources' description of the Spartan agoge read rather like how someone would write about modern child soldiers if they thought it were a good thing.
As far as I can tell, infanticide was accepted in ancient Greece and Rome at a lot of points. Ancient historians did have a habit of making assumptions that previous societies, they might have assumed that infanticide was common in Sparta because to a later ancient Greek that would have been how they would think weeding out weakness would be done (and Spartans liked to give the impression that they have always been t…
I haven’t read the archeologist’s work. I did read the article. The archeologist claims that evidence across the Aegean and Athens particularly shows weak babies were cared for until death. That’s fine. However we’re not discussing Athenian nor general Aegean baby care. We’re discussing Spartan care. Nothing in the article (and I could have missed it) proved evidence, from digs, against the idea of infanticide by the…
Even within Sparta, proper Spartans didn't make up the majority of the population, so you'd still have to distinguish between Spartan infants and helot infants.
I haven’t read the archeologist’s work. I did read the article. The archeologist claims that evidence across the Aegean and Athens particularly shows weak babies were cared for until death. That’s fine. However we’re not discussing Athenian nor general Aegean baby care. We’re discussing Spartan care. Nothing in the article (and I could have missed it) proved evidence, from digs, against the idea of infanticide by the…
Isn't the onus on the ones claiming that Spartans practiced systemic infanticide to provide the evidence that they did so?
I haven’t read the archeologist’s work. I did read the article. The archeologist claims that evidence across the Aegean and Athens particularly shows weak babies were cared for until death. That’s fine. However we’re not discussing Athenian nor general Aegean baby care. We’re discussing Spartan care. Nothing in the article (and I could have missed it) proved evidence, from digs, against the idea of infanticide by the…
A weak counterclaim does not imply the claim to be truth.