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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#771

Post by CRConrad »

pydry wrote: post #222
bladegash wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough. Likewise, if you think leaking the pentagon papers is the same as leaking all diplomatic cables and operational communications from a period of time is the same thing, not sure I can say much to change your opinion.

>If you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough. If you think it wasn't about that you clearly didn't follow the lawsuit.

> If you think it wasn't about that you clearly didn't follow the lawsuit.

What something is ostensibly about -- like for instance, what's spelled out in a lawsuit -- is not necessarily what it's actually about.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#772

Post by CRConrad »

pydry wrote: post #228
ben_w wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complicated. I feel that an Australian citizen should not expect to be extradited to the USA for publishing information the USA would rather not be published. Still true even if he is an activist, would still be true even for someone genuinely trying to systematically destroy America and American values, if it’s just publication. Free speech etc. For encouraging Americans to break American laws, which I think is the…

>For encouraging Americans to break American laws, which I think is the non-legalese summary of the accusation? Were Gandhi/MLK/Rosa Parks wrong when they made a point of breaking unjust laws and encouraging others to follow along? Many liberals at the time thought yes - "the law being the law" and all that. It does sound like you're making the same argument they were?

> Were Gandhi/MLK/Rosa Parks wrong when they made a point of breaking unjust laws and encouraging others to follow along?

The difference between their civil disobedience and Assange's actions is that they took their punishment.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#773

Post by CRConrad »

bladegash wrote: post #268
Karunamon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if accomplishing the first thing necessarily accomplishes the second thing? For example, informing on any nation's heretofore unknown war crimes hurts them on the world stage.

That's a good question and I am not 100% sure where I would personally/morally draw the line. I think the conversation would be much different if all that were released was the evidence of what people consider to be a war crime. However, there was a lot more than that released than just that. Whether A (benefit to society) is greater than B (risk/damage) is always a hard distinction to make and up for significant dis…

The Abu Ghraib whistleblower(s?) revelations certainly diminished the USA's reputation internationally, so weren't they, too, "furthering your adversaries'interests"?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#774

Post by CRConrad »

kingcharles wrote: post #424

One problem is that he likely won't be held in a prison, he'll be held in a pre-trial detention facility. The conditions in pre-trial detention in the USA, on the whole, are considerably worse than any prison because they are designed for "short-term" holding only. I did a deposition a few years back with the warden of a detention facility and asked him why the conditions were so bad. "The average stay here is 30 day…

> I did a deposition a few years back with the warden of a detention facility and asked him why the conditions were so bad. "The average stay here is 30 days", which justified everything. That figure came because a large number of people were able to bond out on day one and skewed the average he was using. It did not take into account the significant number of people who were in the facility for close to a decade or more awaiting trial. For instance, at the Cook County Jail in Chicago there are several people who have been waiting over 11 years and still have no trial in sight.

So the relevant measurement ought to have been the average stay of the inmates actually there at any one time, right?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#775

Post by CRConrad »

jessaustin wrote: post #650
hnfong wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really saying the appropriate response to a "political opponent" trying to stop you from being elected is murder?

The masks are really coming off.

Is this a comment not just on Assange's extradition, but on current COVID-19 events too?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#776

Post by pelasaco »

CRConrad wrote: post #766
pelasaco wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, I'm not saying that it is perfect, but to keep comparing with Epstein and joking around won't help Julian Assange. Important is: if those Assurances could be documented and monitored by the international community, it is definitely great and TBH, would be better to Assange if he would have gotten something like that back in 2010.. he lost 10 years of his life in "prison", but it won't even be reduced from hi…

> he lost 10 years of his life in "prison", but it won't even be reduced from his sentence.. Totally his own fault. Neither the USA nor the UK told him to hole up in that embassy; he did that all on his own.

yes, sure. Probably he believed that Obama and the international community would save him. In another hand back in the days he didn't have the same offer on the table as he has now.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#777

Post by GordonS »

bladegash wrote: post #331
klibertp wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only we could all flee Tell that to Snowden. > There are absolutely reasons for state secrecy and Sorry, I have to: that's just, like, your opinion man. Have you ever thought that you might be wrong on this? How about the state stops doing the things they need to keep secret? You may call it naive, but some will call it being just, you know?

Fortunately you and I do not individually make that decision. Society does and it has deemed, through democratically elected leaders and participation in a social contract that there is a case to be made to state secrets.

I accept that sometimes information cannot be made public for reasons of national security, but that get out clause seems to be very over-used.

How many members of Western society do you think would agree that war crimes should be routinely covered up? I'd guess very, very few.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#778

Post by CRConrad »

pelasaco wrote: post #776
CRConrad wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he lost 10 years of his life in "prison", but it won't even be reduced from his sentence.. Totally his own fault. Neither the USA nor the UK told him to hole up in that embassy; he did that all on his own.

yes, sure. Probably he believed that Obama and the international community would save him. In another hand back in the days he didn't have the same offer on the table as he has now.

To me it feels more likely that he just wanted to avoid a few years in Swedish prison for rape and thought it would blow over soon (much faster than in the end it did), so he could slither out from the embassy in a month or three. The whole "afraid Sweden would extradite him to the USA" line felt phony then and still does now.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#779

Post by jessaustin »

CRConrad wrote: post #775
jessaustin wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The masks are really coming off.

Is this a comment not just on Assange's extradition, but on current COVID-19 events too?

No, it refers entirely to the despicable sentiment expressed above by 'seoaeu. Once upon a time Americans would have pretended to value speech and journalism enough to feign concern at the prospect of vote-for-every-war chickenhawks assassinating a news editor via remote deathdrone just to distract from and cease reporting of their own crimes. Many Americans no longer pretend to value freedom: the masks are coming off.

That loathsome comment wasn't even [flagged]! Good grief.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#780

Post by pelasaco »

CRConrad wrote: post #778
pelasaco wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, sure. Probably he believed that Obama and the international community would save him. In another hand back in the days he didn't have the same offer on the table as he has now.

To me it feels more likely that he just wanted to avoid a few years in Swedish prison for rape and thought it would blow over soon (much faster than in the end it did), so he could slither out from the embassy in a month or three. The whole "afraid Sweden would extradite him to the USA" line felt phony then and still does now.

which is understandable.. I think people accused from rape have an universal welcome treatment everywhere in the world...
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