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Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

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Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#91
post #31
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Active amplification of disinformation is just as much a threat to democracy. Sure yellow journalism existed. But it had anything resembling the scale, scope, reach, and speed as current technology (which is why it is taking over). Trying to trivialize this new reach would be like trivializing using everyone's iPhone/Android GPS to hand out speeding tickets - sure it's the same law, but an entirely different regime w…

> Despite free speech laws, it has always, and under pretty much every legal system, still been illegal to utter certain types of speech, such as yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, or inciting riot. It is never absolutely free. And that sentiment—that very example, even—has been used to justify expansive restrictions on speech that nobody would or should put up with today, such as opposing the military draft. “Whe…

Of course that sentiment (against yelling "FIRE!") has been misused, just as with any sentiment.

Similarly, the "No Censorship Ever!" sentiment is being abused to justify spreading weaponized dezinformatsiya at massive scale and speed, resulting in literally killing people (starting w/deluded COVID victims and Rohinga muslims,+++), for profit.

That is THE POINT here - that it can not be absolute in either direction, and we, as a society, must do the work of striking the right balance.

And no, it is not an argument that "there was also bad stuff before" (e.g., yellow journalism), so it must be OK now.

Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#92
post #5

If they were going to give their award to a truly deserving recipient it would have been the tortured and imprisoned journalist Julian Assange who is an advocate of free speech and an independent media and voices. Instead they gave the awards deliberately to censorship advocates. It's the journalistic equivalent of giving war criminals and killers of children Nobel Peace Prizes like Kissinger and Obama. https://www.h…

As if, facebook and twitter would not have banned him if he used their platform?

Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#93
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. I am absolutely done with this level of doublespeak.

The article is factually incorrect. For instance, the Russian journalist did not mention Silicon Valley companies nor did he intend to mean that social networks are promoting authoritarianism and waging war. Instead, he referred multiple times to the mainstream media in Russia that is tightly controlled by the state and is acting as a propaganda device that serves short-term goals of the ruling elite, promoting war i…

Seems like the title is based on Ressa’s quote: "Silicon Valley's sins came home to roost in the United States on January 6 with mob violence on Capitol Hill," she said. "What happens on social media doesn't stay on social media."

Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#94
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Active amplification of disinformation is just as much a threat to democracy. Sure yellow journalism existed. But it had anything resembling the scale, scope, reach, and speed as current technology (which is why it is taking over). Trying to trivialize this new reach would be like trivializing using everyone's iPhone/Android GPS to hand out speeding tickets - sure it's the same law, but an entirely different regime w…

> Sure yellow journalism existed. But it had anything resembling the scale, scope, reach, and speed as current technology As a share of current events information , it was greater, often virtually monopolistic, for not just “yellow journalism” generally but often a fairly unified single viewpoint of yellow journalism. (In terms of divisiveness, the actual problem today isn't greater proportional influence of yellow j…

I don't see how arguing that how bad yellow journalism was in the past is an argument for continuing it now. Seems a bit like saying 'slavery was bad before, so discrimination is ok now'. Both are unacceptable in sustainable society.

Perhaps a particular case was overturned, but the principle still rings true. Or, are you saying that it should really be OK for people to deliberately make verbal actions that directly result in killing other people?

Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least governments (in a democracy) are subject to public scrutiny and accountable to the electorate. As far as I can tell, the big tech firms aren't answerable to anyone.

You can stop using Google, Facebook, or Apple and not be a customer. You do not get this choice with your government, regardless of the electoral process.

Is that actually true? Don't those companies (maybe not Apple) maintain "shadow profiles" to track non-users?

https://reclaimthenet.org/google-is-building-shadow-profiles...

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/facebook-shadow-profiles/

Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#96
post #28

> How can you have election integrity if you don't have integrity of facts? This one is easy. There is no integrity of facts. No matter what standard you use you will have cases where reasonable people disagree. Historians argue about interpretation of facts all the time. There is no universal objective truth. You can argue that you don't need absolute integrity and just clamp down on the fringe stuff but that just s…

> 3. Make appearing at a polling place mandatory. This one is controversial. This is the system Australia has. You don't have to vote. You simply need to show up and get your name crossed off.

"It is not the case, as some people have claimed, that it is only compulsory to attend the polling place and have your name marked off, and this has been upheld by a number of legal decisions:

"High Court 1926 – Judd v McKeon (1926) 38 CLR 380

Supreme Court of Victoria 1970 – Lubcke v Little [1970] VR 807

High Court 1971 – Faderson v Bridger (1971) 126 CLR 271

Supreme Court of Queensland 1974 – Krosch v Springbell; ex parte

Krosch [1974] QdR 107

ACT Supreme Court 1981 – O'Brien v Warden (1981) 37 ACTR 13"

https://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/voting/

-----

On Australia's ranked choice implementation:

Some people (including me) see Australia's system as the forcing of an appearance of consent for the election of the same two parties. Within that system, you're not only not allowed to find all of the candidates unacceptable (and/or not to care about the outcome), but even further you're forced to rank all of the candidates. Albert Langer tried to get people to rank both major parties equally last, rather than accepting being forced to show a preference between them, and was jailed.

"During his incarceration, Albert Langer was deemed by Amnesty International to be a 'Prisoner of Conscience.'"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Langer

Australia managed to create a system even worse than FPTP. It annihilates small parties, and with their aggressive defense of it, this is obviously an intended effect. I think they just need proper runoffs if they honestly want to record people's preferences. At the absolute least, allow people to abstain from endorsing every candidate (but one, practically speaking.) Instead, millions of people who despise both the Labor and Liberal candidates have their votes recorded for one or the other every single election, under pain of fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langer_vote

Australian-style ranked choice reduces to almost exactly what we have now, but additionally artificially inflates the support of status quo incumbents.

Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#97
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who gets to decide what is "hateful shit" ?

Content moderators. At the very least. I'm all for free speech, but what's happening today on the Internet is not free speech in any way or form. I'm pretty certain most of what's written on popular online forums today, such as political/news subreddits is propaganda or troll warfare.

I wouldn't be surprised by this myself, but the main actors in astroturfing are usually states and corporations through bots and paid shills, not normal users.

So, if you were being serious about stopping things like that you would be specifically going after bots and shills, not opinions. That's a huge distinction to be made that I don't think you're properly addressing.

Re: Nobel Peace laureates blast tech giants and warn against rising authoritarianism

#100
This comment section is a painful read--when it comes to "free speech" this community somehow loses all sense of nuance or introspection.

Facebook and Google "stifle free speech" every day when their algorithms pick losers.

That the tech industry is manipulating the dissemination of information at a scale never seen before is undeniable.

With that much power comes a great social responsibility, and it's clear (especially egregiously in Facebook's case--see Myanmar or covid for a more recent atrocity) that that responsibility is not taken seriously.

How many people have died needlessly in this pandemic due to misinformation spread by algorithms that reward outrage? Was yellow journalism exactly the same? Should all speech be treated equal? How should our expectations regarding speech change when someone with an axe to grind no longer has to convince someone to print physical pamphlets and pass them out to people to reach a massive audience? What kinds of processes should be in place to prevent messages that may cause imminent physical harm to people from reaching millions? Who should be in charge of those processes?

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