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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#401

Post by milkytron »

xxxtentachyon wrote: post #149
yarnton99 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

As you say, there are plenty in the Northeastern United States. I think the primary historical factors that separates cohesive, walkable towns in the US from more stereotypical American development are the city having been established and built out prior to the 20th century (so there was some initial plan or development that predates cars), and the community either being wealthy enough or remote enough to avoid the p…

> Of the places I’m familiar with, I’d call out Delaware and Montgomery County, PA

Maybe certain select towns within those areas, but most of the area within those counties is not "Strong". Particularly where I grew up in Montgomery County, there are potable water issues that the municipalities refuse to address because the costs are too high.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#402

Post by milkytron »

zip1234 wrote: post #318
throwawaysea wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are those bad results? Neighborhood character matters - what's wrong with people having a preference for low density, open air, fast access, uncrowded parks, and so forth? You are engaging in the same dishonest recasting of people's personal preferences by summoning a caricature about increasing property values or "keeping out the poors". No one I know who favors low density cares about those things - it is first…

> I would argue that neighborhood character is prioritizing people. It's prioritizing the ones who live there already, who have built their town into a desirable location, and want to protect what they have. No. It is prioritizing the loud ones over everyone else. Also, most people don't understand what makes a good city and have hardly seen anywhere else. They just want other people to pay for their unchanging city.…

> In the US, you have lifetime odds of death in a crash of 1 in 106.

It's actually 1 in 107, but nonetheless, that's terrifying.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-o...

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#403

Post by milkytron »

harpersealtako wrote: post #358
bobthepanda wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not really necessarily that the car centric city exists, though it certainly has externalities related to health and the climate. The problem is that only the car centric city exists. Nice walkable places are in extremely short supply and fetch a premium, and so there exist people who buy into the detached house, car centric lifestyle because it is the only thing available at their price point. It is i…

This is the crux of the issue. I've said it before in HN, but urban density advocates need to focus more on why denser urban neighborhoods are good, rather than focusing on why car-centric suburbs are bad. New urbanists need the support of suburbanites whether they want to admit it or not, railing against people who like having space and privacy is less effective at winning allies than making a solid economic and soc…

This is why I like the points and objective of Strong Towns. It's mostly about fiscal responsibility and improved quality of life for all.

I think those are some objectives we can all rally behind.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#404

Post by milkytron »

rvba wrote: post #241

Roads without public transport are a nightmare - nowhere to park. Those stroads at least allow to park.

Roads should not have destinations on them, they should be a connection between two destinations. Streets are an example of a destination, with businesses, homes, etc. Streets can have parking nearby.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#405

Post by Aloha »

occz wrote: post #386
Aloha wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is stopping anyone from building denser infrastructure, I'm in favor of lifting the often absurd parking requirements seen. But I don't wanna see a world where density is required, because I don't want to live in a dense area.

>Nothing is stopping anyone from building denser infrastructure, I'm in favor of lifting the often absurd parking requirements seen. That's the thing though - single-family zoning, parking minimums and highway-like standards for streets are very much stopping density from being built. What little density is attempted to be built gets killed by NIMBYism.

What I dont want is to density to be mandated, I think if you eliminate the rules requiring not-density, it will develop on its own.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#406

Post by ItsMonkk »

Aloha wrote: post #405
occz wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nothing is stopping anyone from building denser infrastructure, I'm in favor of lifting the often absurd parking requirements seen. That's the thing though - single-family zoning, parking minimums and highway-like standards for streets are very much stopping density from being built. What little density is attempted to be built gets killed by NIMBYism.

What I dont want is to density to be mandated, I think if you eliminate the rules requiring not-density, it will develop on its own.

Japan's zoning system does a decent job of mediating between the two. Here's[0] a good summary of their system. For your case, category 1 would fit perfectly. When category 1 is 20% of the land, that's fine. When it's 80%, like it is in most of the USA and Canada, that's why we're seeing backlash from the likes of StrongTowns/NJB.

[0]: https://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.htm...

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#407

Post by seoulmetro »

mcv wrote: post #264
seoulmetro wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an outrage channel. >It's an information channel that mostly shows you how things work in the Netherlands and makes the case that it's a better way than the idiotic car-centric north American way. Yes. Comparing apples to oranges. What an outrage! My apples have less vitamin C! How dare they. >If you're outraged after watching his videos I'm not. But the majority who do watch the video are. It's his fault. The…

Are people outraged by what he says, or by the reality he exposes? Should that reality then remain hidden to keep people complacent? I think it's reality that's outrageous, and it's people like NJB and Strong Towns that are pointing out it could be better, they are pointing out how to make it better. People are outraged because they realise how bad their infrastructure is, and how much better it could be. That's a po…

It can't be better. That's the point.

If someone told you that it can't be better, and it was the truth, you'd get pretty outraged at them when another person claimed that it was all just bad design and that they didn't want you to have the better thing.

It's pretty obvious when you have no emotion to channel.

Comparing apples to oranges is an easy way to get anyone upset. After all, who wouldn't want both?

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#408

Post by seoulmetro »

cycomanic wrote: post #211
seoulmetro wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an outrage channel. >It's an information channel that mostly shows you how things work in the Netherlands and makes the case that it's a better way than the idiotic car-centric north American way. Yes. Comparing apples to oranges. What an outrage! My apples have less vitamin C! How dare they. >If you're outraged after watching his videos I'm not. But the majority who do watch the video are. It's his fault. The…

So you're saying it's an outrage channel based on what evidence? You say that the car centric cities of North America are like they are by thoughtful design and that NJB creates outrage by depicting this design as verfiably inferior while in reality it is just "what works for the country". So can you elaborate what is better (and works better) about the design of a car centric "stroad" City compared to a walkable cit…

>So can you elaborate what is better (and works better) about the design of a car centric "stroad" City compared to a walkable city?

You still don't get it. That's a shame.

Have you looked at the US on a map? Do you know how much of the US is low density housing?

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#409

Post by w0mbat »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #236
w0mbat wrote: post #172

I have a house in Sunnyvale, California a few blocks from El Camino Real. It's the ultimate stroad, hundreds of miles long and lined with thriving businesses and I love it. It's getting really quite clean and quiet now a ridiculous proportion of traffic around here is Teslas.

Take it from someone who grew up in Santa Clara: El Camino Real fucking sucks. Now, many businesses along El Camino Real are great, don't get me wrong. But the road itself is miserable. When we lived in Sunnyvale there was a bigass Korean market literally across the street from us; we'd only drive there, despite it being, again, directly across the street , because that's how painful and dangerous-feeling it was to c…

I cross El Camino Real on foot all the time. Yes my nearest section has has 3 lanes in each direction, but it has marked pedestrian crossings with traffic lights and drivers obey the lights. However, I admit, I frequently drive to things in my neighborhood because things are far apart and when you chain a few local errands together it is much faster to drive. Every business has parking nearby so driving is easy.
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