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Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

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Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#31

Post by mandmandam »

neither_color wrote: post #20
throwaway2331 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also simply do-away with level-headed discourse, and go back to the tried-and-true: "Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan." To seriously spend any time at all aligning oneself with the workings of reality-disassociated billionaires---much les…

"Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan." While this is true, it's also true of anyone I don't personally know. They can't care about me. Dunbar's number.

I think you'll find that common people care a lot more about the common good than billionaires; in case you'd actually missed the point.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#32

Post by kgin »

fractallyte wrote: post #13

And yet Bezos was quite clear about Blue Origin's long-term goals ( https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhle/watch/jeff-bezos-and-b... ): "We need to take all heavy industry, all polluting industry, and move it into space. And keep Earth as this beautiful gem of a planet that it is..." It would "take decades to achieve, but you have to start. And big things start with small steps." Bezos acknowledges that it won't be ac…

Needs to be clearer. All 99% of people see is Jeff Bezos and William Shatner in cowboy hats.

If it’s about moving heavy industry into space they need to spend less time talking about how much fun it is to float around in space.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#33

Post by truculent »

legitster wrote: post #15

I was surprised to see this report, given the rockets themselves emit literally zero Carbon Dioxide (the byproduct of their engine being NO2). Then I got to the actual meat of it: >An 11-minute flight emits no fewer than 75 tonnes of carbon per passenger once indirect emissions are taken into account (and more likely, in the 250-1,000 tonnes range). Ah yes, indirect costs. Sure. These things that don't matter when NA…

If NASA does it, the carbon cost could reasonably be amortised over the populace, since it is a public mission. I think it it fair to not give private missions the same benefit of the doubt.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#34

Post by ericmay »

fractallyte wrote: post #13

And yet Bezos was quite clear about Blue Origin's long-term goals ( https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhle/watch/jeff-bezos-and-b... ): "We need to take all heavy industry, all polluting industry, and move it into space. And keep Earth as this beautiful gem of a planet that it is..." It would "take decades to achieve, but you have to start. And big things start with small steps." Bezos acknowledges that it won't be ac…

Could not agree more. And while people are happy to hate on Bezos and his space adventure I’m very unhappy that we ignore far more meaningful problems and discussions. He’s just a scapegoat. I don’t know what to call this exactly. It’s like when someone is successful doing something that someone else thinks the government only should be doing so they get mad and throw mud and insults. And I don’t really give a crap about Bezos, don’t care for Amazon one way or another.

How about we increase NASA’s funding 100x, stop building all new highways, and electrify America? Why are we complaining about Bezos and not our actual leaders that we elect? It’s lazy!

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#35

Post by sekai »

mandmandam wrote: post #11
burglekutt wrote: post #5

Calling it a joyride seems like typical rage bait du jour. Space is a worthy project. Projects need goals to rally around, and this was a goal being accomplished. Who cares who was on the ride? Furthermore, making it all about the richest few people misses the point. More useful to focus on the goal (regain U.S. space capability, and expand human space capability overall) and remember that there are tens of thousands…

Space is a worthy project; the commercialization of space travel is not. Aren't you tired of billionaires externalizing horrific environmental costs for their own profit? Isn't asking us to rally behind them because they have " a goal" just a little bit patronizing / condescending / cynical? Isn't the opportunity cost for such a jaunt just horrific, compared to the "ever-expanding light cones of benefit" we'd get by…

> the commercialization of space travel is not.

You'd have to be naive to expect that capitalism will not bring in innovation and improvement to Space exploration / solutions. I'm all for it.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#36

Post by bakuninsbart »

Meph504 wrote: post #30
bakuninsbart wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is like the difference of going on a cruise and using products that were sent via shipping container. The latter is essential for our modern economies to function, while the former is just irresponsibly destroying the environment for your own amusement.

The problem is people seeing this as a joyride, spaceX or nasa can send up a thousand rockets, and people correctly see that as progress and testing of the ship and advancement of technology. But because people have a hard on for blaming Bezo's for everything this is classified as some sort of waste of time. Blue Origins intended goal is to reach the moon, and this is a step towards it, one that offers a way to fund…

I don't disagree with you, Bezo's flying to space is just really bad publicity, because it makes apparent how much the contemporary space race is a dick measuring contest between filthy-rich tech industrialists. To me, it is honestly one of the most telling signs of the times, that a contest that was originally "held" between the only two super-powers on the planet, is today led as much by capitalists as it is by nation states.

Space tourism is only a viable form of commercializing space exploration because we live in incredibly unequal times, and this is where most of the criticism of Bezos in particular comes from. Added on to that, in contrast to Musks companies, Amazon is also constantly in the news for viciously exploiting labor, so that adds to the criticism.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#37

Post by pksebben »

Meph504 wrote: post #30
bakuninsbart wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is like the difference of going on a cruise and using products that were sent via shipping container. The latter is essential for our modern economies to function, while the former is just irresponsibly destroying the environment for your own amusement.

The problem is people seeing this as a joyride, spaceX or nasa can send up a thousand rockets, and people correctly see that as progress and testing of the ship and advancement of technology. But because people have a hard on for blaming Bezo's for everything this is classified as some sort of waste of time. Blue Origins intended goal is to reach the moon, and this is a step towards it, one that offers a way to fund…

I don't think anyone here is claiming that musk's space Tesla was anything other than frivolous.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#39

Post by rowanG077 »

mandmandam wrote: post #31
neither_color wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan." While this is true, it's also true of anyone I don't personally know. They can't care about me. Dunbar's number.

I think you'll find that common people care a lot more about the common good than billionaires; in case you'd actually missed the point.

This isn't obvious at all to me. Why do you think this?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#40

Post by mandmandam »

rowanG077 wrote: post #39
mandmandam wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that common people care a lot more about the common good than billionaires; in case you'd actually missed the point.

This isn't obvious at all to me. Why do you think this?

Really? The last few thousand years of history have been pretty illustrative; the last 50 especially so.

The uber-wealthy have no direct dependence on functional public services. They have no need (and even a preference) for corrupt legal and political systems. They (hire people to) work day and night to gut regulations that protect us, and they cover for each other and circle the wagons when anyone starts getting too close to breaking any part of the golden circle.

If people institute progressive tax systems, billionaires find a way to dodge or loophole their way out; going so far as to leave if people demand "too much". Modern billionaires find creative ways to exploit workers and demonize unions.

Compare all that to the decent and normal people you know, assuming you have something like a normal life. The people I know are happy enough to pay their share for the common good, and wouldn't dream of hiring some slimeball tax accountant to figure out how to hold on to as much as possible - see Pandora, Paradise, etc.

No one normal is paying politicians to break regulations, or writing legislation that allows for tax loopholes, or removing any possibility of accountability for "malfeasance" like oil spills or banking crises.

And billionaire owned media is happy for none of this to be in the national conversation. But once you start looking - it's pretty obvious.

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