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Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#141

Post by dundarious »

throwaway20875 wrote: post #50
JKCalhoun wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not doubting your point that the U.S. has both the incentive and track record to interfere with El Salvador. How do you back up your suggestion that the media is being controlled by U.S. interests, that there is collusion on the part of the media and U.S. government?

There are clear conflicts of interests between an independent press and the press being owned by large corporate entities. Aside from that, note the revolving door and cozy relationship between the intelligence arm of the government and media: William Brennan - CIA to MSNBC James Clapper - NSA to CNN Michael Hayden - NSA to CNN Asha Rangappa - FBI to CNN Chuck Rosenberg - DEA to MSNBC The above are just a few, and cl…

You’re right about all of that, and most people really don’t know the extent of corporate and security state capture in US “free press”… but it’s pretty useless as a defense of BTC policy in El Salvador, or as a critique of this article.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#142

Post by pjc50 »

noxer wrote: post #113
pjc50 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine if you could pay 10 cents to read an article or tip a web site. 1) nobody actually wants to pay this, though; the whole set of pre-existing arguments against micropayments apply, too many to list here. My fave one is "micropayments enable microfraud", though. And if you think cookie banners are annoying wait until you see the cryptobanners. 2) you definitely can't scale this on a blockchain, and any scalabl…

1) Why do people buy "pro" apps to remove ads but would not do that for content on the web? Also the micro fraud argument is kinda funny since everyone knows the ad business is full or fraud and everyone somehow involved with ads pays a huge junk for this. I think micropayment is far move fraud resistant because all the bots pretending to be humans and clicking ads do not work anymore. 2) That true. but it doesn't ha…

> remove ads but would not do that for content on the web

The "pro" app equivalent is existing paywalls, NYT-style.

> micropayment is far move fraud resistant because all the bots pretending to be humans and clicking ads do not work anymore

But different sorts of fraud are imaginable, especially if you don't confirm every single payment. If you do confirm every single payment that's probably unacceptable user friction. Or the copyright problem already seen with NFTs and content farms: copy someone else's pages, charge for access to them.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#143

Post by KarlKemp »

throwaway20875 wrote: post #50
JKCalhoun wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not doubting your point that the U.S. has both the incentive and track record to interfere with El Salvador. How do you back up your suggestion that the media is being controlled by U.S. interests, that there is collusion on the part of the media and U.S. government?

There are clear conflicts of interests between an independent press and the press being owned by large corporate entities. Aside from that, note the revolving door and cozy relationship between the intelligence arm of the government and media: William Brennan - CIA to MSNBC James Clapper - NSA to CNN Michael Hayden - NSA to CNN Asha Rangappa - FBI to CNN Chuck Rosenberg - DEA to MSNBC The above are just a few, and cl…

That’s a few ex-spies that get to spend retirement in relative luxury in return for occasionally and sternly looking into a camera and making some completely obvious point, but with a lot of authority.

There are more military veterans at McDonald’s, maybe even in relative terms. That doesn’t mean the Marines are infiltrating the McNugget supply.

But, yea, top politicians and “the mainstream media” sometimes have similar world views. That’s as non-scandalous as it is obvious and unavoidable.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#144

Post by pjc50 »

CPLX wrote: post #132
dnautics wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point the equities market is also gambling. FTFY "Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverish…

> Technically he was talking about short term high inflation, but there is no mechanistic reason why this would be false for long-term low inflation I was with you until this point. There are absolutely reasons why there is a difference. Time is directional and irreversible and human life is exceedingly finite. Thus there will always be a higher value placed on money you get today versus money you get in the future.…

"In the long run we are all dead." -- also Keynes

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#145

Post by el-salvador »

Passthepeas wrote: post #13

So the key reason for btc adoption in El Salvador is cheaper remittance payments, I find it odd that an article that sets out to criticize btc in El Salvador doesn't even mention the original intended use case.

This may work for smaller payments What I've seen is that Salvadorans in the U.S., that have bought or sent bitcoin using their U.S. credit/cards with the Chivo Wallet App based in El Salvador, is that have been hit by 1%-3% foreign transaction fees or cash advance fees from their U.S. banks.

So for some larger amounts it may end up being more expensive than a normal remittance.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#146

Post by acdha »

motohagiography wrote: post #140
acdha wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies are a big part of solving the environmental problems activists identify No, they’re not and it’s shameful to try to promote proof-of-waste under the guise of environmentalism rather than just acknowledging that you are trying to find buyers. There’s no shortage of useful applications for green power. Having constant competition to waste that power has incentivized keeping dirty power online and del…

You can't afford not to. The only way we reduce our impact on the planet is by managing its resources effectively, and genuine incentives that drive that efficiency are the only way to achieve that. Poverty is what you get when you don't value what you have, and it's practically the definition of inefficient use of resources. Making geothermal plants economical by leveraging demand from crypto mining that scales dire…

That doesn’t make any sense — a carbon tax has the positive feedback cycle you’re describing. Cryptocurrency doesn’t have that effect because it doesn’t care about the source of the power it’s wasting — as we’ve seen with coal plants coming online — and the waste has no connection to benefits so the demand is insatiable, and miners will use whatever source is cheapest after exhausting surplus renewables no matter its pollution profile.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#147

Post by chaostheory »

lowkey wrote: post #107
eqmvii wrote: post #26

I’m exhausted by cryptocurrency. There’s a kernel of neat tech innovation and a reasonable argument about monetary policy obliterated by an avalanche of greed, hype, fraud, and magical thinking.

I’m exhausted by the fiat money scam 2% annual inflation over a 40 year career amounts to 40% less earnings. Inflation is theft. Bitcoin fixes this. No one has ever explained a better solution to inflation than Bitcoin. Fiat money printing is a scam that lets politicians spend more money without directly raising taxes. Bitcoin is honest sound money with a fixed inflation policy forever that cannot be manipulated by a…

You’d have a better point if transactions were fast AND cheap. Until crypto gets there, it won’t be viable as an actual currency yet. I’m not saying it’s impossible like this hit piece, but it’s not there yet.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#148

Post by throwaway20875 »

dundarious wrote: post #141
throwaway20875 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are clear conflicts of interests between an independent press and the press being owned by large corporate entities. Aside from that, note the revolving door and cozy relationship between the intelligence arm of the government and media: William Brennan - CIA to MSNBC James Clapper - NSA to CNN Michael Hayden - NSA to CNN Asha Rangappa - FBI to CNN Chuck Rosenberg - DEA to MSNBC The above are just a few, and cl…

You’re right about all of that, and most people really don’t know the extent of corporate and security state capture in US “free press”… but it’s pretty useless as a defense of BTC policy in El Salvador, or as a critique of this article.

There is no defense of BTC inherent to my point, quite the contrary. BTC is largely irrelevant. What's relevant is that this leader in a South American country has thumbed his nose at the empire and the empire will seek to undermine him through all means at its disposal, media hit pieces included.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#150

Post by throwaway20875 »

KarlKemp wrote: post #143
throwaway20875 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are clear conflicts of interests between an independent press and the press being owned by large corporate entities. Aside from that, note the revolving door and cozy relationship between the intelligence arm of the government and media: William Brennan - CIA to MSNBC James Clapper - NSA to CNN Michael Hayden - NSA to CNN Asha Rangappa - FBI to CNN Chuck Rosenberg - DEA to MSNBC The above are just a few, and cl…

That’s a few ex-spies that get to spend retirement in relative luxury in return for occasionally and sternly looking into a camera and making some completely obvious point, but with a lot of authority. There are more military veterans at McDonald’s, maybe even in relative terms. That doesn’t mean the Marines are infiltrating the McNugget supply. But, yea, top politicians and “the mainstream media” sometimes have simi…

We're well beyond your cognitive capabilities in this discussion if you're suggesting that a comparison between powerful ex-directors of the US intelligence apparatus landing post-gig jobs as political commentators at media organizations and "Marines" at McDonalds is apt (or even relevant).
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