Up all night with a Twitch millionaire • Hacker News Board

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#271

Post by mym1990 » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #44

mym1990 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really make sense. Athletes in many sports are playing way past their 'prime' these days and they are wearing out much more than just their hands. Consistently good reaction times are a result of consistent training. Plenty of older baseball/tennis players have superhuman reaction times. I would see mental fatigue and boredom as being the major hurdle to playing esports on a professional level at an olde…

In physical sports the barrier to entry is very high. Even if you have good reaction time, high strength, etc. you will still need 1000s of hours of practice from a very young age to excel. In e-sports there's millions of people practicing every day and the built in ranking system can filter that down to the current top 0.1%. At this point branching out into actual competitions is not nearly as difficult as getting n…

The ranking system in physical and mental sports is essentially the same, it comes down to: 'can you beat or compete with X person consistently', and just for context...there were over a million high school football players participating in 2019, and this is mostly in organized play. If I want to get noticed in League, I have to grind a queue for ungodly amount of hours to get to a respectable ranking and then solicit myself to teams for proper team based competition...good luck with all that.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#272

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

moosebear847 wrote: post #150

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played League of Legends for nearly 10 years. Not to take anything away from Tyler1, because he really goes above and beyond, but it really doesn't take much mental focus or anything really to play it. Programming? It takes focus, you really have to think sometimes. But League? When I'm tired the game plays itself. It just feels like muscle memory. It might take a bit more effort to play at a consistently high l…

Playing a game like LoL is like being in a battle or war. Would you watch anime and shoot your gun with 'muscle memory' while fighting 5 ruthless, intelligent opponents? A fight requires constant reevaluation of the situation and planning to win the game. If you play by "muscle memory" and win, you are playing against weak unthinking opponents or getting carried by your team. If you played against good players, trust…

> Would you watch anime and shoot your gun with 'muscle memory' while fighting 5 ruthless, intelligent opponents?

Easy. At some point some actions are so engraved that you respond without even thinking. Example: blinking out on a slight enemy sight.

> A fight requires constant reevaluation of the situation and planning to win the game. If you play by "muscle memory" and win, you are playing against weak unthinking opponents or getting carried by your team.

> If you played against good players, trust me you won't win thinking about anime and chilling. And it's very stressful because you're constantly on guard.

You can use all those big words, but reality is completely different. I've watched amateur/pro Dota 2 since it's inception in 2011 and some pro Dota 1 before that. It is a team game, it is more about team cooperation and heroes you pick. Sure small things can overturn the game, but most of the time it is about bigger game than small actions.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#273

Post by DarylZero » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #157

lhorie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imo we should be lauding this brand new sector I disagree. Twitch/YouTube/TikTok didn't create a new kind of millionaire. They're simply celebrities. The only thing that arguably changed is that content production is so cheap and saturated now that consumers get a lot more choice in terms of who they want to watch, without being constrained by TV schedules and other distribution/logistics limitations. There is no "…

In addition to what others have said, I think the fact that people can make a living from very very niche content is novel. Arguably, it works so differently that it could be considered a new sector. > By "lauding celebrities", all we're accomplishing is consolidate consumer attention into fewer content production channels, solidifying the position of the platforms where these celebrities operate. I think you're on p…

>I think the fact that people can make a living from very very niche content is novel

https://www.wired.com/2004/10/tail/

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#274

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

the_lonely_road wrote: post #169

solidasparagus wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing MOBAs all day is much easier than programming all day. It has bigger lows like exhausting 100 minute techie games or getting tilted by teammates, but it's still somehow easier. I think it's because you get a fresh start every game and a good game is refreshing in a way that finishing a problem isn't.

Sometimes grandmaster but frequently diamond player here that also built my own company where I frequently coded 12+ hours a day. I disagree with you completely. I was also significantly more exhausted from a long session of league then I was from a long session of developing one of my sites. You are always on for 30 minutes straight and near the end it’s almost non stop team fighting and positioning with micro decis…

You're an outlier, there's a reason why anybody can play games designed to hook at many people as possible and not everybody can program.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#275

Post by lostmsu » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

arcsonnet wrote: post #251

lostmsu wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there thought? How do you know his skills are not due to a few hours (tens of hours, hundreds of hours) of intense training of a few basic rules, and the rest is just freeroaming like it is for every other player?

Because there are other players on the other side of the game. They will be at comparable levels of "intense training of a few basic rules" (due to ELO based matchmaking) and they will be trying as hard as they can to beat him.

You can't assume high-level players are trying as hard as they can in a proof that high level players are trying as hard as they can.

Your argument doesn't make any sense in the scenario I described.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#276

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #202

evandwight wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often do you engage your slow brain (from thinking fast and slow)? I feel like it's like speed chess and not normal chess. You have no time to think till after the game, you just have to do and trust your gut. The slow brain is what exhausts you.

There are slower and faster moments. e.g after recalling/killing enemies/dying you have like 30sec to look around map and think what you as team want to do / achieve and how to do that It depends on the stage of the game, but generally when enemies are around, then you may don't have time to think.

> e.g after recalling/killing enemies/dying you have like 30sec to look around map and think what you as team want to do / achieve and how to do that

30 seconds is infinite in games like that.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#277

Post by mym1990 » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

blahblah123456 wrote: post #49

mym1990 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really make sense. Athletes in many sports are playing way past their 'prime' these days and they are wearing out much more than just their hands. Consistently good reaction times are a result of consistent training. Plenty of older baseball/tennis players have superhuman reaction times. I would see mental fatigue and boredom as being the major hurdle to playing esports on a professional level at an olde…

It's counterintuitive, but if you look at eSports players, the prime years are much lower (both the start and the end). You do see 16 year olds at the top but you never see 30 year olds. It feels like the prime is really 16-25. Reaction times in traditional sports are not as important, and hands are one of the worst things to wear out. More parts != more wear out. There's a reason why there are (general) physical the…

Its not really counterintuitive, the prime years are lower because true physical development in physical sports starts at a later age, everything up to that point is related to building a physical foundation for movement, building an interest in the sport, and laying groundwork for proper mechanics.

There is also societal stigma from playing video games seriously past early 20s(well atleast 5-10+ years ago, but with Twitch and things it is now way more accceptable).

"Reaction times in traditional sports are not as important" is laughable.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#278

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

Permit wrote: post #90

butwhywhyoh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some heroin users are also incredibly dedicated to finding their next score. They show intense focus when it comes to seeking out their next hit. Why do you think demonstrating focus on an addictive video game is the same as solving open-ended computer science problems?

> Why do you think demonstrating focus on an addictive video game is the same as solving open-ended computer science problems? Firstly, I probably wouldn't classify the work most of us do as "solving open-ended computer science problems" so I'm not trying to make a comparison to that work. Secondly, I guess it stands out to me because I watch other people play the same addictive game and are unable to play at a high…

Tyler is just "high level" heroin addict so to say. There are indeed thousands of heroin addicts, just look at online of Dota 2.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#279

Post by wpietri » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:58 PM UTC

corobo wrote: post #243

wpietri wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but I have to wonder whether those things are as grueling as streaming is. I did some user interviews with streamers for a project. None were this successful; the people talked to ranged from making a decent living to having a day job and then doing streaming as a full-time second job. Even the ones like Tyler were feeling the same strain he is. But the ones who seemed worst off were the ones who were p…

I don't think it's a case of gruelling, it's more that streaming is the social outcast version of acting. You have to interact with people to act else it doesn't work. Streaming can be entirely solo, even at the top end Nobody is forcing you to be live 12 hours a day. Most of the super effort no reward streamers would benefit by cutting the live hours and working more on marketing anyway. Twitch in particular is terr…

Sorry, I don't understand this. I admittedly don't watch much streaming. But every streamer I've ever seen interacts constantly with their audience. And the ones I interviewed are intensely conscious of their audience and the need to make them feel special.

The actors I knew mainly focused on craft and collaboration with teams. If they dealt with the audience at all, it was in very controlled bursts in the minutes after a performance. So it seems to me that streaming is much more socially demanding.

Re: Up all night with a Twitch millionaire

#280

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

handrous wrote: post #15

mrtksn wrote: post #2

3 to 8 hours long streams seems to be the norm on Twitch. What kind of lifestyle there’s that allows the consumption of full day long content?

> What kind of lifestyle there’s that allows the consumption of full day long content? Kids. Adults without kids.

> Adults without kids.

What an ignorant thing to say. Apparently having no kids==nothing to do except for consume full day long content.