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Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

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Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#41
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's a big huge dollop of nihilism, of why even bother. It's very unclear what your slam even means, what you are trying, technically, to express as the problem. Which makes your rejection even harder to handle with faith & respect. I also don't think it's accurate. Handshake is a cryptographically certified way of establishing identity . Since torrents are now mutable via handshake, it seems like webtorrents c…

You are assuming bad faith here. The project is marketed as unblockable, etc and yet we both conclude it is blockable from the start with existing network management tools that are deployed in places like Iran and China. I was asking a genuine question of use case.

> and yet we both conclude it is blockable

Extremely polarizing language for something that is way more a scale to me, and I don't agree that this technology is blockable. I already elaborated some scenarios where hosting can respawn easily, with no coupling to any particular infrastructure. That to me is pretty unblockable. There's other resilliencies offered here.

The story keeps getting better, given all the resilience features at Bittorrent's core: webtorrent clients could connect to multiple trackers just fine. Since it's tracker based, there's no need for any specific host to stay online. We can all just use the existing tracker network.

Even if the entire tracker network is taken down- something that has never happened to bittorrent & which is beyond imagining to me- bittorrent still has a peer exchange network & allows for peers to manually be added. Whence peer exchange can kick in & keep resilliency going.

I'm sorry but I have no agreemenet whatsoever with you on blockability. This has multiple vast layers of resillience that are excellent, which have never seen active threat against them.

What would make you happy? Do we need a system able to resist long term nuclear winter to be unblockable? What's the goal here? You've still been extremely unclear what your technical complaints actually are, extremely specious, & aggressive. And now you are also putting words in my mouth.

> You are assuming bad faith here.

I think I've done quite well working around doing that, & worked hard to find something to discuss. In contrast, you have yet to specify a specific technical case at all, to explain what issue you actually have or what you think the problem or scenario you are imagining is. And you use aggressive position & hard words to double down on your argumentless snub, which to me reads like a bad faith follow-up, one I challenge you to do better on.

I mostly think you don't know the tech. Which is fine. Bittorrent is fairly complex & has a lot of layers to it. There aren't great primers to get filled in on it. Bittorrent is a great basis, one that countless millions have been spent trying to block & take down & combat, but the system has been extremely resillient. Magnet links "just work", fantastically well, and are super easy to share, to get started, over any medium one wants. The underpinnning distributed P2P technologies are broadly capable of taking over from there. I don't think your short, undetailed, savage doubt is contributive or accurate: you should better define your issues if you are going to throw such a hard heavy opinion down against great tech.

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's new, so I don't think there are many out there yet. I do hope that this changes the landscape of the ecosystem for 'decentralization.' It's not supposed to be about tokens or organizational marketing hype. First, it's about free speech and freedom of information. "De-platforming" is now extinct. Only then, can you even begin to discuss anything else. I'm very thankful to WebTorrent, DMT, Handshake and Electron f…

Thanks, the work done is definitely cool but, as with any other decentralization project, I’m yet to find the content use cases. The only two kinds of successful content types that I’m aware of are pirated movies on Torrent and cryptocurrencies on the blockchain. They all depend on centralized discovery(torrent websites and exchanges). Which makes me wonder, are these decentralized websites or social media platforms…

> I’m yet to find the content use cases.

It's an alternative transport, not application layer. If you can imagine doing anything with the world wide web , or ftp, you can imagine what this is for. It can transport hypertext files around, or whatever other file type you want.

In the web case, it'd just be some local http files you could open in a local file origin. There'd be no server. But that's still a way to exchange whatever art or media you could ever imagine.

We are bounded only by imagination. The internet is built around the Internet Protocol (IP), a way of streaming data arbitrarily from one computer to another. It has been up to us to imagine uses, to chase new possibilities. What do you think the use cases for IP are? Can you see what that made possible? Your question is in effect that, and trying to grasp at how broad, how possible, how potentiated this great work is is dauntingly hard, for we could share any type of content we want with either.

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this literally uses a cryptocurrency (handshake) for domains

There's a dilemma as the magnet links/hashes aren't easily shareable. One option is to create a DMT directory, but this would be centralized. Handshake is the most mature decentralized domain name project, and I opted for it. It uses coins to limit abuse, since anyone can flood a decentralized system. You don't need coins to browse and use federalist. That said, if there are any other immutable DNS systems that aren'…

Have you checkout out the Gnu Name System from GNUNet?

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a dilemma as the magnet links/hashes aren't easily shareable. One option is to create a DMT directory, but this would be centralized. Handshake is the most mature decentralized domain name project, and I opted for it. It uses coins to limit abuse, since anyone can flood a decentralized system. You don't need coins to browse and use federalist. That said, if there are any other immutable DNS systems that aren'…

Have you checkout out the Gnu Name System from GNUNet?

The website for GNUnet seems to be down/404, but it looks like ownership of names is controlled by a central authority (https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/gnunet/gnunet-namestore...).

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#45
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming bad faith here. The project is marketed as unblockable, etc and yet we both conclude it is blockable from the start with existing network management tools that are deployed in places like Iran and China. I was asking a genuine question of use case.

> and yet we both conclude it is blockable Extremely polarizing language for something that is way more a scale to me, and I don't agree that this technology is blockable. I already elaborated some scenarios where hosting can respawn easily, with no coupling to any particular infrastructure. That to me is pretty unblockable. There's other resilliencies offered here. The story keeps getting better, given all the resil…

Please don't argue in the flamewar style on HN. We want curious conversation here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#46
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's a big huge dollop of nihilism, of why even bother. It's very unclear what your slam even means, what you are trying, technically, to express as the problem. Which makes your rejection even harder to handle with faith & respect. I also don't think it's accurate. Handshake is a cryptographically certified way of establishing identity . Since torrents are now mutable via handshake, it seems like webtorrents c…

You are assuming bad faith here. The project is marketed as unblockable, etc and yet we both conclude it is blockable from the start with existing network management tools that are deployed in places like Iran and China. I was asking a genuine question of use case.

Block-resistant and censorship-resistant are terminology I've seen used in other projects. I agree that ublockable and uncensorable are hard phrases to sell here, they kind of immediately beg to be challenged.

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this literally uses a cryptocurrency (handshake) for domains

There's a dilemma as the magnet links/hashes aren't easily shareable. One option is to create a DMT directory, but this would be centralized. Handshake is the most mature decentralized domain name project, and I opted for it. It uses coins to limit abuse, since anyone can flood a decentralized system. You don't need coins to browse and use federalist. That said, if there are any other immutable DNS systems that aren'…

> magnet links/hashes aren't easily shareable.

I'm OK with this (and that's more or less what IPFS does), you only need to pin a couple hashes, and one could build a website directory using this project. Or even a recursive DNS with zone delegation to other mutable torrents.

I like the idea of outgoing links being other hashes.

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#48
post #45
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and yet we both conclude it is blockable Extremely polarizing language for something that is way more a scale to me, and I don't agree that this technology is blockable. I already elaborated some scenarios where hosting can respawn easily, with no coupling to any particular infrastructure. That to me is pretty unblockable. There's other resilliencies offered here. The story keeps getting better, given all the resil…

Please don't argue in the flamewar style on HN. We want curious conversation here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Decentralized, Mutable, Serverless Torrent Swarm Websites

#49
BitTorrent is so good and I am surprised that I don’t see it in more places

Using a private key for mutations is a great idea. I believe it is similar to how BitTorrent Live (undocumented) was implemented, where new content was added to a merkle tree. That is at least how RFC7574 proposed doing it

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