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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#611

Post by dragonwriter »

mercy_dude wrote: post #386
ceejayoz wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well can you elaborate why you think it is? Because "we'll revoke your First Amendment rights if we don't like how you're using them" is a very big step on a very steep and very slippery slope. Assange's defense is likely to revolve around the First Amendment. Weakening it would hurt him, even.

My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives. I am not speaking of first amendment of individuals which I think is also under attack by the same group of people, look how the mainstream media would love to cancel certain people they don’t l…

> My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives.

The founders largely were oligarchs, heirs of oligarchs, or married into the families of oligarchs,and certainly were not people to whom the idea of someone, or some group, within that class investing heavily in media to promote their political ideas would be surprising.

> look how the mainstream media would love to cancel certain people they don’t like.

Both before and after independence, political cancel culture in the early US involved much more forceful, and often permanent and total, cancellation than what is complained about today.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#612

Post by gdy »

pydry wrote: post #173
bladegash wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think it is a loss for freedom of the press, I think it is an opportunity for the courts to define what a journalist actually is, vs. not. Perhaps the courts will side with Assange and we will find that this is First Amendment protected activity. I personally do not believe it is, but I do think that this situation is a bit unique to modern times and is likely to set precedent one way or the other.

Russia also does this. Inconvenient journalists are designated "foreign agents", for instance. Redefining journalist can let you imprison any and every journalist.

"Russia also does this. Inconvenient journalists are designated "foreign agents", for instance."

Inconvenient journalists financed from abroad. And "foreign agents" are not imprisoned, they just obligated by the law to remind their readers about this fact.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#613

Post by space_fountain »

at_a_remove wrote: post #568
jollybean wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. Assange is alleged to have cooperated with a member of the US forces to release gigabytes of diplomatic cables etc. - which is possibly a crime. In all but rare cases, you absolutely do not have the right to break into systems of national security and release arbitrary information under the guise of 'journalism'. His extradition is perfectly rational, legal and judicially legitimate. The Abu Garib…

I believe someone else (Manning) broke in. Assange was the conduit for the information. You may now look at the disparity in treatment.

Well that is the claim that Assange is making. The government claims he tangibly helped. That has always been the line. You can't give your source burglary tools, ask them to break into something particular and then claim you were just a reporter. You may believe the claims from the prosecution are wrong or lies, but they don't seem on their surface to be crazy

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#614

Post by dang »

the_optimist wrote: post #74

Only in the sense of a Solzhenitsyn nightmare. There are breathing, ideologically-bent individuals pushing this. Who are they, and how do we hound them like they have hounded him.

Please don't take HN threads on ideological flamewar tangents.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29509343.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#615

Post by nickysielicki »

jollybean wrote: post #295
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

This is ridiculous. Assange is alleged to have cooperated with a member of the US forces to release gigabytes of diplomatic cables etc. - which is possibly a crime. In all but rare cases, you absolutely do not have the right to break into systems of national security and release arbitrary information under the guise of 'journalism'. His extradition is perfectly rational, legal and judicially legitimate. The Abu Garib…

> you absolutely do not have the right to break into systems of national security

He didn’t do that, he didn’t help Manning get any additional access, the whole basis of their case is in Assange agreeing to look at some stuff for Manning and then never getting back to him. Assange didn’t hack or crack anything.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#616

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #558
pydry wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Assange doesn't regret this. I kind of get the impression that becoming a martyr was a sacrifice he was prepared to make if he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking underneath the "civilized press conference veneer" presented by the US government.

My sense, and I don't think it is a popular opinion on HN, was that Assange became, perhaps unwittingly, a pawn of Russia. Selectively releasing documents, which is how I see it, doesn't show an even hand of justice exposing "the unbridled imperialist evil". I'm no fan of Assange. But I also have not read a lot about Assange so I may be ignorant.

Putin would assassinate him if he exposed too much. That's incentive enough to cater to Russian interests.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#617

Post by dang »

swiley wrote: post #98
the_optimist wrote: post #74

Only in the sense of a Solzhenitsyn nightmare. There are breathing, ideologically-bent individuals pushing this. Who are they, and how do we hound them like they have hounded him.

[flagged]

We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop. You can't do "race and religion" (to use your euphemism) flamewar on this site.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#618

Post by willis936 »

fredestine wrote: post #589
JKCalhoun wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sense, and I don't think it is a popular opinion on HN, was that Assange became, perhaps unwittingly, a pawn of Russia. Selectively releasing documents, which is how I see it, doesn't show an even hand of justice exposing "the unbridled imperialist evil". I'm no fan of Assange. But I also have not read a lot about Assange so I may be ignorant.

yeah, a pawn of russia. just like trump. yet it is biden who said yes to the biggest russian infrastructure project for germany with the pipeline. the narrative of being a russian pawn doesnt work. everyone loved assange until he underlined the oblivious corruption of clinton and hence contributed to make her loose rightfully so the election. I am no trump fan and I am for a non partisan vision of the world. a vision…

Everyone loved Assange until he [entered politics, played favorites with information disclosure, and demonstrated that he is more mercenary than martyr]. I wonder why.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#619

Post by nickysielicki »

space_fountain wrote: post #613
at_a_remove wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe someone else (Manning) broke in. Assange was the conduit for the information. You may now look at the disparity in treatment.

Well that is the claim that Assange is making. The government claims he tangibly helped. That has always been the line. You can't give your source burglary tools, ask them to break into something particular and then claim you were just a reporter. You may believe the claims from the prosecution are wrong or lies, but they don't seem on their surface to be crazy

> You can't give your source burglary tools, ask them to break into something particular and then claim you were just a reporter.

Drop the analogy, what did Assange actually do to help Manning?

I’d maintain that it’s not unreasonable for a journalist to ask a leaker for documents about a particular topic.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#620

Post by FpUser »

Ensorceled wrote: post #53
blackoil wrote: post #15

And this is why I find all the posts around China and why people/company should be ostracised for dealing with them hypocritical.

So if I post something criticizing China's policies towards, say, Tiawan or the Uyghurs, I must include some criticism of a random terrible US policy or I'm a hypocrite? Do I need to also include a criticism of, say, Russia's policies towards the Ukraine or is it only the US?

This depends. When it is reported as a news or one simply wants to discuss details sure there is no need to bring other's wrongdoings.

But when it is used as at least partial propaganda (and it often does) in line of "look at good us and bad them" or comes from the government / affiliates then they better look in the mirror first. One thief has no standing criticizing the other. The fact that one had stolen $1000 and the other went for $2000 does not make much difference.

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