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Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

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Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#121

Post by mbroncano »

ehnto wrote: post #90
usrusr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am convinced that in pre-secularism days, when "religious" was pretty much the default assumption, there were plenty of monks/nuns who went down that path not because they were particularly devoted but because they failed to fit into any of the conventional roles offered by society but didn't want to become outcasts either. Yes, this might be a misconception (inspired by Eco/Connery?), but it be surprised if there…

The Order of Dependency Management has requested you update your package dependencies to the latest versions. I have always been fascinated with the thought of a post-society world, where technology still lingers but can only be wielded by few, and perhaps truly understood by none. All previous knowledge gone, people would have to tinker, poke and problem solve their way to understanding how these arcane artifacts an…

Maybe you might want to read this book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#122

Post by vajrabum »

ModernMech wrote: post #117
the_only_law wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t one of the big problems with academia that you’re still heavily beholden to economic interests? See: all the talk on HN about research being about quantity over quality. At least in the US, it’s also incredibly expensive, especially if you’re not part of target demographic whose spent some years optimizing to reduce that cost.

If your goal is to be a top researcher at a top university, yeah economic interests are a top concern. If instead you just want to study and be left alone, there's plenty of room for that. For instance you can just study and then teach what you study, then do it again the next day. As long as you teach enough students to cover your salary (not hard), then there's a place for you.

I'm guessing you haven't talked to many adjuncts. The academic life is far from easy for most these days. See here for an example.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/adjunc...

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#123

Post by Mizza »

martythemaniak wrote: post #97
Mizza wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an atheist. I still want to monk. I want to monk in my own way, which would probably be growing vegetables, keeping chickens, and making open source software. I don't see how that's possible given the way society is currently organized - it requires periods of time spent to commercial toil, in order to pay landlords, taxes, etc.

I think you're underestimating the extent to which monasteries are commercial, and have been for many many centuries. You don't go there to chill, you go there to work hard and earn money for the monastery. In past times, they were helped along because they were given a monopoly over certain economic activities. Getting a job at a sclerotic state-owned enterprise is probably the closest equivalent today.

The point is not to LARP as a 15th century monk, the point is to live a non-commercial life of quiet, focused service.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#124

Post by stavros »

makeitdouble wrote: post #21

BTW Greece moving into the EU meant they had to get a special ratified status to keep blocking women access (that would be illegal otherwise) https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=15779940...

Which I'm not a fan of, but then again I'm not a fan of the church owning an entire peninsula.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#125

Post by [deleted] »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #57
input_sh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also why Russia's October Revolution of 1917 happened on November 7th. The state officially switched a year later, and November 7th = October 25th in the Old Style calendar. Wonderfully confusing.

While we are at curiosities, I'd like explanation (please without googling) as to why Octoberfest in Munich, Germany always begins in September?

[deleted]

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#126

Post by jandrewrogers »

ydnaclementine wrote: post #17
math_denial wrote: post #7

I often yearn for the "unearthly quiet" and structure of a monastic life. I am not religious but I just feel as if I don't belong in society: I don't care about work, jobs, careers, riches, fame. I would like a life of study, contemplation and silence.

In the book "Wanting", the author has a bit explaining silent retreats, which are basically vacations where no one is allowed to talk and everyone reads. I thought they were an interesting idea to kind of test out monkhood. Similarly, I have always wanted to try John Carmack's idea of taking a computer away to a hotel for a week and working on a project and ordering room service

My version of the Carmack thing is taking my laptop on boat to Alaska and back for a week. Very limited internet access, relaxing scenery, and no interruptions. These have proven to be extremely productive weeks.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#127

Post by toast0 »

Mizza wrote: post #41
the_only_law wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is stopping them again?

I am an atheist. I still want to monk. I want to monk in my own way, which would probably be growing vegetables, keeping chickens, and making open source software. I don't see how that's possible given the way society is currently organized - it requires periods of time spent to commercial toil, in order to pay landlords, taxes, etc.

In order to monk, you need a sponsor. Religious monks may have a sponsor in their religious organization (although their commercial activities may make them self-sufficient or often self-sufficient). As an atheist monk, you'd need to find someone or group to sponsor you, or do it yourself. If you're raising chickens and growing vegetables, you may qualify your property to be taxed as a farm, which typically is a much reduced rate than a property with just a home. If you monk out in the countryside, the property is likely to be inexpensive to start with.

There's some amount of commercial utility to chickens (and their eggs) and vegetables, so you might be able to make your sponsorship go farther.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#128

Post by at_a_remove »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #4
rwmj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And no entry in the timezone database :-( https://github.com/eggert/tz/search?q=athos But then if they have no computers, maybe that doesn't matter.

The constant "time zone" changes might throw a wrench into calculating the offsets. How far in advance can we calculate sunrise/sunset times?

I am frustrated in the faintness of memory, but I dimly recollect an area which, for about two years, altered time every day so that noon was when the sun was directly over head. Something Royal Time, or something Solar Time.

There are some weird time zones out there.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#129

Post by ModernMech »

vajrabum wrote: post #122
ModernMech wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your goal is to be a top researcher at a top university, yeah economic interests are a top concern. If instead you just want to study and be left alone, there's plenty of room for that. For instance you can just study and then teach what you study, then do it again the next day. As long as you teach enough students to cover your salary (not hard), then there's a place for you.

I'm guessing you haven't talked to many adjuncts. The academic life is far from easy for most these days. See here for an example. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/adjunc...

I'm a professor and I talk with a lot of adjuncts. I'm not saying it's easy, and I don't think the OP of this thread was looking for an easy life. They wanted a life free of commercial toil in which they could devote themselves to raising chickens and open source work. If that's all you want to do, you can do this on an adjunct's salary. No commercial work necessary, just teaching people what you know.

If you want to raise a family of 4, own property and cars, dine out, and do all the normal things that most adjuncts want to do, then yeah, that job won't afford you the life that you're looking for.

Also I will note that this piece is conflating the adjunct position with the property of being non-tenured. In fact there are many non-tenured positions that are not adjunct positions, and they can pay much more. These can be called among other things, "instructor" or "research faculty" or "visiting professor".

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#130

Post by _sunshine_ »

kippster wrote: post #114
raptorraver wrote: post #109

I had a two week pilgrimage to Mt Athos on Summer 2019. It was literally a trip to another world. We wondered around the peninsula and visited few monasteries and met wonderful people living there. Happy to see this on HN. If anyone has any questions I'm more than happy to answer those. Btw, there's a great documentary about Mt. Athos that I think really expresses the ehtos of the place: https://youtu.be/U5pwfLRI-R8

How feasible would it be to do a pilgrimage there without knowing Greek?

You can get by with English, but you won't understand the service (which is in the monastery's main language, e.g. Greek/Russian/etc).
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