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Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

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Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#81

Post by runjake »

eatonphil wrote: post #2

The time zone issues sound fun: > A visit to Mount Athos also involves literal time travel. The monasteries there still go by Byzantine time, in which the day begins at sunset, not midnight, so the time zone changes literally every day. Visitors may have to set their watches back by as much as seven hours as they cross the border. And don't forget to change the date as well. Mount Athos never adopted the new-fangled…

Trivia: We used Julian calendar dating on one of our maintenance systems in the US military. Everyone had to learn this dating, and yes it was quite difficult. I asked and never got a good answer on why it was done this way ("Because it's always been this way.")

It's been so long ago, I don't remember too many details, but someone else may have a better memory and pipe up.

More info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#82

Post by throwawaygal7 »

NKosmatos wrote: post #77

One of the bad aspects of religions are such restrictions that have no base whatsoever. If we omit this anachronism, Agion Oros, as it's commonly called in Greece, is a nice place to visit (Christian men only) with an unspoiled environment and peaceful way of living. It's common for many Greeks to visit at least once this special place (something like Hajj/Hadji), but in recent times this has been declining. There ar…

The monks have no reason that they forbid women? Just cause? INTERESTING.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#83

Post by elorant »

math_denial wrote: post #7

I often yearn for the "unearthly quiet" and structure of a monastic life. I am not religious but I just feel as if I don't belong in society: I don't care about work, jobs, careers, riches, fame. I would like a life of study, contemplation and silence.

I’ve been twice to Athos, staying at different monasteries each time. It’s unreal because the lifestyle there is very rudimentary. They wake up really early and spend most of the day either praying or working. You’ll hear no cars or any other mechanical sound whatsoever. There’s electricity of course, and you can bring a phone or laptop if you so wish, but most people don’t even bother. Add the fact that the region seems idyllic with monasteries buried deep into forests a few minutes walk from the sea and you can understand why spending a week there is so refreshing. By the way, not everyone visiting Athos is religious, nor is required.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#84

Post by throwawaygal7 »

usrusr wrote: post #72
coldacid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read Neal Stephenson's "Anathem", the thing that called out to me the most in that novel was the "mathic" life of the main protagonist and his contemporaries. A life of contemplation, study, and garden husbandry is very appealing.

I am convinced that in pre-secularism days, when "religious" was pretty much the default assumption, there were plenty of monks/nuns who went down that path not because they were particularly devoted but because they failed to fit into any of the conventional roles offered by society but didn't want to become outcasts either. Yes, this might be a misconception (inspired by Eco/Connery?), but it be surprised if there…

I think this is probably a modern bias since we tend to under appreciate the sincerity of religious beleif that many people had , historically. I'm not saying everyone did, but many did.

I think the rigors of monastic life are also off putting to someone just wanting to hang out.

anway, if there is a formula for secular monasticism I would like to see it. In my view, without the orders and vows there is nothing keeping people from leaving - kinda like how communes sort of evapoeate after a while.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#85

Post by srcreigh »

rwmj wrote: post #3
eatonphil wrote: post #2

The time zone issues sound fun: > A visit to Mount Athos also involves literal time travel. The monasteries there still go by Byzantine time, in which the day begins at sunset, not midnight, so the time zone changes literally every day. Visitors may have to set their watches back by as much as seven hours as they cross the border. And don't forget to change the date as well. Mount Athos never adopted the new-fangled…

And no entry in the timezone database :-( https://github.com/eggert/tz/search?q=athos But then if they have no computers, maybe that doesn't matter.

There's at least one computer on Mt Athos.

I've heard a first hand story about a monk there who takes nice photos of animals. He just goes for walks and says, for example, "Snake, come here let me take your photo!" So the snake swims across the lake for a good close up.

You can get lots of great photos that way.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#86

Post by Grustaf »

eatonphil wrote: post #2

The time zone issues sound fun: > A visit to Mount Athos also involves literal time travel. The monasteries there still go by Byzantine time, in which the day begins at sunset, not midnight, so the time zone changes literally every day. Visitors may have to set their watches back by as much as seven hours as they cross the border. And don't forget to change the date as well. Mount Athos never adopted the new-fangled…

A big part of the orthodox church (mostly on the slavic side) also uses the old calendar. That's why Russians "celebrate Christmas in January".

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#87

Post by prometheus76 »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #25
math_denial wrote: post #7

I often yearn for the "unearthly quiet" and structure of a monastic life. I am not religious but I just feel as if I don't belong in society: I don't care about work, jobs, careers, riches, fame. I would like a life of study, contemplation and silence.

I think there's a small mismatch of expectations. A monastery is not generally a "life of study". There may be study and prayerful contemplation, but there is definitely labor, physical labor -- generally starting with some measure of agriculture -- as the community supports itself. It's also still a society, a small one at least, a group life. It is likely to impose on you much more than society in general, though i…

One other thing to note: permission to be a hermit is only granted to monks after many years of being part of the community of monks. To go off alone as a monk is very spiritually perilous for the first few years. It takes a long time to gain the discernment necessary to be a hermit monk, and some monks are never given that permission by their spiritual father.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#88

Post by riffraff »

jl6 wrote: post #54

From another article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36378690 "One of the traditions is that the Virgin Mary was blown off course when she was trying to sail to Cyprus and landed on Mount Athos. And she liked it so much that she prayed to her son that she should be given it as her own and he agreed," says Speake. "It's still called 'the garden of the mother of God', dedicated to her glory, and she alone represen…

I suppose it's not as much to do with convenience as it does with sex/celibacy.

Sheep are very useful, but present more chances for certain behaviours that monks want to prevent.

Hens are likewise allowed, AFAIK.

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#89

Post by Grustaf »

NKosmatos wrote: post #77

One of the bad aspects of religions are such restrictions that have no base whatsoever. If we omit this anachronism, Agion Oros, as it's commonly called in Greece, is a nice place to visit (Christian men only) with an unspoiled environment and peaceful way of living. It's common for many Greeks to visit at least once this special place (something like Hajj/Hadji), but in recent times this has been declining. There ar…

What are these "restrictions that have no base whatsoever"? Are you referring to "Christian men only"? Surely you can see the basis of a male monastery complex only allowing male Christian guests?

Would you be equally upset at a Buddhist convent only allowing Buddhist women as guests?

Re: Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

#90

Post by ehnto »

usrusr wrote: post #72
coldacid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read Neal Stephenson's "Anathem", the thing that called out to me the most in that novel was the "mathic" life of the main protagonist and his contemporaries. A life of contemplation, study, and garden husbandry is very appealing.

I am convinced that in pre-secularism days, when "religious" was pretty much the default assumption, there were plenty of monks/nuns who went down that path not because they were particularly devoted but because they failed to fit into any of the conventional roles offered by society but didn't want to become outcasts either. Yes, this might be a misconception (inspired by Eco/Connery?), but it be surprised if there…

The Order of Dependency Management has requested you update your package dependencies to the latest versions.

I have always been fascinated with the thought of a post-society world, where technology still lingers but can only be wielded by few, and perhaps truly understood by none. All previous knowledge gone, people would have to tinker, poke and problem solve their way to understanding how these arcane artifacts and mysterious facilities.

I think it interests me because the idea of idle curiosity and discovery in a vacuum seems wholesome and rewarding. No roles to fill, no bills to pay, and all your capabilities are wrought from your own efforts not bestowed upon you by the exchange of money (smartphones, cars, etc).

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