Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 411 posts

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#331

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #262
throwawaysea wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that suspicious. People who like their quality of life in their city and neighborhood don't want to lose that. This is perfectly normal and legitimate. Those who want higher density are usually either outsiders who want to live there but can't, or developers (or departing residents) who seek to make money by flipping a property for cheaply-built denser properties. If you increase density, you end up changing…

Yeah, this comment is the mindset I'm talking about. Protecting "neighborhood character" by prioritizing cars over people, increasing property values at the expense of affordability, keeping out the poors, etc. They put a lot of nice words on a lot of very bad results. Meanwhile, very-dense-by-US-standards cities like Vienna and Munich often top the charts for quality of life. And I can attest to that myself: Munich…

>keeping out the poors

It's not "the poors" that the middle-to-upper-middle class care about. It's the underclass. The lumpenproles.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#332

Post by crispyambulance »

JacobDotVI wrote: post #323
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

> Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Yes, but in a different way than I believe your question implies. Edward Burtynsky produced an amazing series of photographs centered around the automobile and in his words, how it "represent[ed] not only freedom, but also som…

To be fair, Breezewood is in the middle of a mountain range. Alternative routes are much longer or involve going around the geography. As a result it gets A LOT of traffic going to/from DC-area, Philly, Pittsburgh.

It's a pity that the only businesses that can cluster around there are just dull chains and yet another bleak HMS-Host-operated rest stop.

If any of you are going through there and have time to get off the PA Turnpike for a while for a meal (or hotel stay), a nice choice would be Bedford PA. It's ~20 miles west of Breezewood. It's an cute old-timey mainstreet town that hasn't been ravaged by rustbelt depression. There are good restaurants there. The Omni Bedford Springs Resort is a nice hotel with a great spa.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#333

Post by rjsw »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #329
globular-toast wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better? Since when? During my lifetime in Britain it has only got worse. It's so bad now I no longer cycle myself for fear of serious injury or death and don't recommend others do either. Cars have become bigger and there are far more of them. We even see monstrous American cars on our roads now. They've taken more and more of the roads and there's no stopping them. Police don't bother any more.. The roads are in wor…

I was explicitly talking about cities because that's the context of the subthread (and indeed the OP). London, Cambridge, Birmingham, Manchester etc. are installing protected cycle infrastructure that was basically unheard of 10 years ago. I do agree that rural roads are more hostile for cycling now, and your assumption as to where I live is wrong.

I can only speak for Manchester but people here have looked at the cycle infrastructure and taken it as a signal to ride around dressed all in black with no lights. I don't think the accident rate will go down.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#334

Post by [deleted] »

xxxtentachyon wrote: post #149
yarnton99 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

As you say, there are plenty in the Northeastern United States. I think the primary historical factors that separates cohesive, walkable towns in the US from more stereotypical American development are the city having been established and built out prior to the 20th century (so there was some initial plan or development that predates cars), and the community either being wealthy enough or remote enough to avoid the p…

[deleted]

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#335

Post by vollmond »

yarnton99 wrote: post #128
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

You probably want to look for towns pushing their "historic" qualities, at least in the Northeast, and live in/near the historic area. I live in Carlisle, PA, which has the downtown (about 3x3 blocks) designated as a historic district. The high street is one lane each way, with a center turn lane and parallel parking. Lots of crosswalks. No strip malls/box stores until you get about a mile away from the square.

There's a fair amount of car traffic, because that high street (and the main cross street) are both designated highways, but there's always a lot of foot traffic. Wide sidewalks and no parking lots generally. The surrounding neighborhoods in most directions keep the walkable nature; mostly rowhomes (some converted to student apartments), a university, very few street-facing garages or sidewalk-crossing driveways.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#336

Post by jmacc1 »

yarnton99 wrote: post #128
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

There is this interesting website called walkscore.com which uses afaiu google maps data to find distances along roads and such from a selected point to basic amenities, then it calculates a score for driving, walking, and biking. It's a little difficult to find on that website but on some page there is a heatmap of precalculated walkability scores overlaying google maps. If you just scan around on that thing you may get an idea about the walkability of various US cities. That should be correlated with the stroadedness / strongtownedness of those cities

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#337

Post by josephcsible »

jeddy3 wrote: post #255
josephcsible wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's just it. If someone likes suburban living, and your family home is in a suburb, how do you think they'd feel about something like "suburbs are probably all going to fail anyway, so let's do a bunch of things that will definitely and quickly make them fail, and then await the glorious day when your house gets torn down and replaced by apartments, and your neighborhood becomes a replica of the inner city"?

I don't understand your reasoning. The only thing ST says here is "let existing suburbs be what they are", which sounds like what you want as well.

Even if they're not directly changing the suburbs with this proposal, the changes they want made to the city will make life worse for people who go there from the suburbs.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#338

Post by refurb »

adrianN wrote: post #219
refurb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I live in a country with high quality transit and the first thing people buy when they can afford it is a car. Why? Convenience, flexibility, ability to haul a family. Cars certainly aren’t a requirement if you have good walkability and/transit, but given the choice many people prefer cars.

There is a big difference between buying a car and doing literally every trip in a car because the only connection from the place you sleep to anywhere is six lane road with speeds exceeding 40mph. Of course cars are convenient for some things. I live in a city where the majority of households has access to a car, but only a quarter of the trips (accounting for 40% of the traveled distance) are made by car. I still c…

Sure, but in the Strongtowns models there is not space for cars - at least everyone owning a car they only use for weekends.

Only the rich own cars. Or those that live outside the urban core.

Welcome to our future if Strongtowns has a say.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#339

Post by refurb »

princeb wrote: post #225
refurb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I live in a country with high quality transit and the first thing people buy when they can afford it is a car. Why? Convenience, flexibility, ability to haul a family. Cars certainly aren’t a requirement if you have good walkability and/transit, but given the choice many people prefer cars.

> Nope. I live in a country with high quality transit and the first thing people buy when they can afford it is a car. I, too, live in a country with high quality transit and also got a car when i had a family and i could afford a car. i have about 1400 km per year on it. having a car and driving it are two different things.

So you want to live in a dense, urban walkable core, but also allocated space for everyone to own a car they drive for 1400 km per year.

Nope.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#340

Post by rdtwo »

dredmorbius wrote: post #123
rdtwo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American malls are islands. Europes malls tend to be hearts of networks

There are (or were) malls in central business districts, say in downtown San Francisco or Chicago. These often have flagship stores, and frequently serve business travellers and tourists (in-country and international). There are definitely more outlying malls away from downtowns. Both have been suffering badly for years, and more so during the COVID pandemic.

Seattle used to have a decent downtown mall area but I think a combination of high rents, low traffic, general lawlessness and Covid has kind of destroyed that. Where I was really impressed in Europe is when malls or store complexes were on major subway hubs and stations. People could do their shopping on the way home without ever having to drive.
Post reply on HN