Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 792 posts

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#221

Post by PragmaticPulp »

lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

> - he’s not a us citizen

> - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil

Not commenting on the legitimacy of the underlying accusations, but neither of these have ever been obstacles for extradition treaties.

Generally, as long as the actions are a crime in both countries (the country where the crime was committed and the country where the person currently resides) then it would fall under most extradition treaties.

There are additional hurdles such as sufficiently believing that punishment will be proportional tot he crime and that the trial will be fair, but simply being in a different country doesn't mean someone is free from the consequences of committing crimes against victims in other countries.

Some countries do have exceptions that their own citizens can't be extradited for treaties in foreign countries, but that doesn't free the person from being prosecuted for the crime in their own country either.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#222

Post by pydry »

bladegash wrote: post #106
yesbut wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange is more of an editor / publisher. This is akin to the Washington Post publishing the Pentagon Papers. As a reminder, this is why the US wants to punish Assange: > Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-a...

If you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough. Likewise, if you think leaking the pentagon papers is the same as leaking all diplomatic cables and operational communications from a period of time is the same thing, not sure I can say much to change your opinion.

>If you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough.

If you think it wasn't about that you clearly didn't follow the lawsuit.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#223

Post by bladegash »

ben_w wrote: post #167
bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

Complicated. I feel that an Australian citizen should not expect to be extradited to the USA for publishing information the USA would rather not be published. Still true even if he is an activist, would still be true even for someone genuinely trying to systematically destroy America and American values, if it’s just publication. Free speech etc. For encouraging Americans to break American laws, which I think is the…

Thank you for the thoughtful response and I especially liked the way you put the dilemma related to how the internet breaks borders. Similar to you, it's challenging to wrap my head around and is a pretty big paradigm shift in terms of the sovereignty of countries, let alone the legal implications of that shift.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#224

Post by derlvative »

bennyp101 wrote: post #212
emilecantin wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US citizen, that's what I find most troubling about this. Change the countries and it's immediately apparent how absurd it is: Imagine a US citizen living in Mexico exposed some Peruvian state secrets (doing something which isn't a crime in Mexico), and now Peru is applying pressure to extradite the guy. Chances are everybody involved would laugh in Peru's face, so why does the UK entertain this in Assange's…

Now is a good time for a power grab? COVID is tightening restrictions on the public, it's nearly christmas, and in the UK we have the PM's Xmas Party to talk about. What better time to slip Uncle Sam a favour?

This sounds like the "mashing together whatever two things are going on at the moment together and claiming they're related" theory of politics.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#225

Post by fit2rule »

the_optimist wrote: post #74

Only in the sense of a Solzhenitsyn nightmare. There are breathing, ideologically-bent individuals pushing this. Who are they, and how do we hound them like they have hounded him.

Start with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the membership of the Council on Foreign Relations. FOAF 3 or 4 levels deep, and you will find the people who are murdering millions of innocent human beings in your name, Americans.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#226

Post by BoxOfRain »

CommanderData wrote: post #196
lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

The UK govnement has passed extremely draconian laws in the last year. The government is trying to to power grab while covid is still around and people are focused on covid. Laws banning protests, surveillance and others. This isn't a surprise but doesn't make it acceptable.

I really hope the scandal around Downing Street throwing raucous parties while the rest of the country suffered under a strict lockdown is the final straw that breaks the back of Johnson’s government. At the very least he’s being extraordinarily dishonourable by going on TV and lying through his teeth to the country about it while bringing in fresh restrictions to keep his hypocrisy out of the news (and fortunately failing) rather than resigning as soon as the scandal broke. He’s presided over an accelerating slide into authoritarianism and oligarchy and will no doubt be remembered as one of the worst Prime Ministers to hold the office.

When the politicians, media outlets, top civil servants, and other people in the corridors of power are drawn from the same Eton to Oxbridge to power pipeline you end up with a proper British Bulldog of a political culture: a creature so heavily inbred it can’t even breath properly.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#227

Post by TomSwirly »

bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

Lots of words. What crime do you think Assange has committed, specifically?

> Assange is an activist, not a journalist.

Assange has broken two of the biggest stories of our era and literally hundreds of stories each of which would be a reputation-maker for a lesser individual.

Just because you don't like the truths that Assange reveals, doesn't mean he isn't a journalist.

> any probative value of the information Manning leaked was overshadowed by the indiscriminate way in which it was done.

Wikileaks tried to get cooperation from the US government to redact the sensitive parts. They refused to cooperate.

Your way would have meant nothing at all.

Can you explain what harm you believe these leaks caused, compared to their value in knowing that the US engages in war crimes and covers them up?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#228

Post by pydry »

ben_w wrote: post #167
bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

Complicated. I feel that an Australian citizen should not expect to be extradited to the USA for publishing information the USA would rather not be published. Still true even if he is an activist, would still be true even for someone genuinely trying to systematically destroy America and American values, if it’s just publication. Free speech etc. For encouraging Americans to break American laws, which I think is the…

>For encouraging Americans to break American laws, which I think is the non-legalese summary of the accusation?

Were Gandhi/MLK/Rosa Parks wrong when they made a point of breaking unjust laws and encouraging others to follow along?

Many liberals at the time thought yes - "the law being the law" and all that. It does sound like you're making the same argument they were?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#229

Post by fit2rule »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #211
the_optimist wrote: post #74

Only in the sense of a Solzhenitsyn nightmare. There are breathing, ideologically-bent individuals pushing this. Who are they, and how do we hound them like they have hounded him.

The entire US military and intelligence apparatus? If you want to know names, just look at the most senior people in the intelligence world. Good luck.

CFR Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#230

Post by bennyp101 »

derlvative wrote: post #224
bennyp101 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now is a good time for a power grab? COVID is tightening restrictions on the public, it's nearly christmas, and in the UK we have the PM's Xmas Party to talk about. What better time to slip Uncle Sam a favour?

This sounds like the "mashing together whatever two things are going on at the moment together and claiming they're related" theory of politics.

A hint of tongue in cheek with my comment :)
Post reply on HN