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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#321

Post by globular-toast »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #208
trinovantes wrote: post #75

The Not Just Bikes youtube channel was quite the rabbit hole. It has convinced me that I really hate North American car-centric cities. It's a shame there's basically no country in the anglosphere designed for pedestrians like most European countries.

Britain is in the anglosphere. We’re not exactly the Netherlands but we’re a whole heap ahead of the US, and getting (very slowly) better. Same goes for New Zealand.

Better? Since when? During my lifetime in Britain it has only got worse. It's so bad now I no longer cycle myself for fear of serious injury or death and don't recommend others do either. Cars have become bigger and there are far more of them. We even see monstrous American cars on our roads now. They've taken more and more of the roads and there's no stopping them. Police don't bother any more.. The roads are in worse shape than ever. Far more money is put into car infrastructure than anything else. I assume you live in London or some other city. Outside of there it's way worse.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#322

Post by DavidPeiffer »

bee_rider wrote: post #46

"Stroad" seems to be a recently popularized by strongtowns. I'm curious if anyone has actually managed to measure this sort of thing? My suspicion is that it "stroads" are essentially to-wide streets, and it should be possible to find research indicating that streets should be narrower, because widening them causes people to drive too fast. I was only able to find the following, coverage, though: https://usa.streetsb…

Just yesterday was thinking about how much pavement is between me and my neighbors across the street. Standard suburbia single family home area, and I think we could have a car on each side of the street and still pass two cars through side by side, though thankfully cars never need to slow down out of fear of hitting things - one side is no parking. It's a ton of infrastructure and maintenance cost that is never fully utilized. Even at the peak of demand (Christmas or Thanksgiving probably) we're not all hosting at the same time, and most likely two very nearby neighbors will be traveling (not taking up street space, and probably fine with you parking in their driveway if you ask permission).

On top of the massive street, everyone has driveways that can hold 2-3 vehicles and typically 2 sometimes 3 garage stalls (though many are filled with "stuff", an entirely separate issue).

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#323

Post by JacobDotVI »

pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

> Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc?

Yes, but in a different way than I believe your question implies. Edward Burtynsky produced an amazing series of photographs centered around the automobile and in his words, how it "represent[ed] not only freedom, but also something much more conflicted."

https://www.edwardburtynsky.com/projects/photographs/oil

One of the most internet famous images from that series is of a stroad in Breezewood, PA:

https://www.edwardburtynsky.com/news-hub/2019/7/25/what-inte...

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#324

Post by RicoElectrico »

jaggederest wrote: post #274
mcv wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son (12) has since yesterday started claiming that Netherland has the second highest percentage of English-speakers in the world. After the UK I guess? But apparently beating out several native English-speaking countries according to at least one measure. No idea what that measure is; I have strong doubts, because as much as the Dutch do indeed have a very strong command of English as a second language, we're real…

> we're really not native speakers, and can be very confidently wrong about idiom or pronunciation, even if we may be better at grammar than many native speakers Trust me, you have no monopoly on being confidently wrong, I'm in the US and have spent significant time in the Netherlands, and it's my opinion that the Dutch have better English skills than most in the US, precisely because it is learned formally. Many peo…

Two words: "should of" ;)

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#325

Post by BeFlatXIII »

ehnto wrote: post #187
robbedpeter wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drive over the meridian, gouge the greenway, and leave tire streaks repeatedly. Then have a friend take pictures and start bugging your local politicians about the lack of consistent access. Have them make the point that paying to continually clean up after people will cost more than putting in a comfortable number of access openings. They'll be able to fix it and look like they're saving the city money at the same t…

Like a desire path for cars! Tired of having to drive around the local park? Just drive through it, the council will get the hint!

The Texas off-ramp.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#326

Post by thehappypm »

moooo99 wrote: post #220
arsome wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because what they have flowing in abundance is a loss in many other ways. Public transit is a generally a worse experience in all but the most urban of places, and even then there's often enough problems that make it significantly less desirable. Biking in the winter? Doable, but also pretty miserable in much of the world. People like personal transportation and big detached houses with yards. Car-centric cities are…

> People like personal transportation and big detached houses with yards. Car-centric cities are the price we pay for these things. Maybe people don’t even like Personal transport that much, maybe they only use it because of the lack of suitable alternatives? Maybe many people don’t have the „single family home whatever it takes“ attitude and would much prefer a suitable apartment in a somewhat dense walkable neighbo…

I use public transit every day, I love it. I used to live in a city with a light rail system 2 blocks away. Even with that, I would still find it easier to drive and park downtown due to the delays, congestion, and slowness of the light rail line. Walk 5 minutes, wait 5 minutes, cram on, take 20 minute ride, walk 5 minutes VS 15 minute drive. Public transit needs to be either faster or cheaper than driving and it rarely is.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#327

Post by cafard »

"you'll be fighting all these strip mall tenants and owners who are making a living mining the public investment in roadway capacity for their own gain."

The gall of these people. I, in contrast, ride public transportation down a publicly maintained street to a workplace where I earn a salary. No mining here.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#328

Post by thehappypm »

renewiltord wrote: post #242
TulliusCicero wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People like personal transportation and big detached houses with yards. People like these houses so much we have to pass laws banning other types of homes on most of our residential land. Gotta make sure they don't accidentally demand the wrong type of housing!

That is rather suspicious. If people are so fond of this, then why the laws prohibiting the other. It sounds like there’s a pressure group distorting the market and preventing people from expressing their preferences. Fairly convincing actually.

It’s because people want to live in a specific kind of community. Many Americans want a suburban life, with a cute house on a plot of land, with neighbors also with cute houses on plots of land. Low density, low numbers of cars clogging the local roads.

Introduce an apartment building and the aesthetic changes — lots more people around, more cars on the road, more congestion at the grocery store, less privacy in the yard. Or so the theory goes.

Not to mention cheaper housing nearby might lower your property value.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#329

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

globular-toast wrote: post #321
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain is in the anglosphere. We’re not exactly the Netherlands but we’re a whole heap ahead of the US, and getting (very slowly) better. Same goes for New Zealand.

Better? Since when? During my lifetime in Britain it has only got worse. It's so bad now I no longer cycle myself for fear of serious injury or death and don't recommend others do either. Cars have become bigger and there are far more of them. We even see monstrous American cars on our roads now. They've taken more and more of the roads and there's no stopping them. Police don't bother any more.. The roads are in wor…

I was explicitly talking about cities because that's the context of the subthread (and indeed the OP). London, Cambridge, Birmingham, Manchester etc. are installing protected cycle infrastructure that was basically unheard of 10 years ago. I do agree that rural roads are more hostile for cycling now, and your assumption as to where I live is wrong.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#330

Post by omnicognate »

yarnton99 wrote: post #128
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

Where have you seen stroads in Oxford?
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