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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#101

Post by tgv »

bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

It might have been partially activist, that still doesn't justify the extradition. The US had no standing, as I believe it's called. They can declare whatever they want "top secret", but that doesn't make a crime for a citizen of another country to publish it. The hacking and conspiracy claims have been added to make it appear as if they have standing, but these are empty. It's another triumph for big budget lawyer corporations, and an actual loss for the freedom of the press.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#102

Post by revolvingocelot »

criley2 wrote: post #75
throwaway21_ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he do any time at all? Because the people who actually should be doing time are the people in power so they are somehow immune? Also, Chelsea could transition to a woman without prison too. The fact that they ended/will end in prison while people who actually committed crimes that these two (and Snowden) exposed speaks volumes about how fundamentally different USA is.

Well "throwaway21", interesting that every time this topic comes up, brand new accounts come out of the woodwork. I'm not going to accuse you of being a political actor, but I would point out that Wikileaks exists as part of a new realm of state-funded and state-coordinated private intelligence services created to retain plausible deniability. When certain state funded operations come up, the comment sections do alwa…

A whole paragraph dedicated to how anonymous internet commenters could be fake spin delivery vehicles, then the suggestion that Assange has been charged with "a relatively minor criminal offence", completely eliding a bunch of politically-motivated now-dismissed sexual assault charges that were the actual impetus for him to hide in a foreign embassy for years.

It'd be one thing if he was hiding from a "5 year max" charge of "assistance in attempting to crack a password hash to gain unauthorized access to military computers", but despite your comment clearly implying that this was the case, it's not.

I'm not going to accuse you of being a political actor, but what a weird coincidence.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#103

Post by JumpCrisscross »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #56
the_optimist wrote: post #27

The US is murdering international journalists.

Nono. Only saudi arabia and russia are doing this. US is just following the law. Nothing wrong with that, right?

> Only saudi arabia and russia are doing this

Khashoggi didn’t get a public court hearing nor a jury of civilians.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#105

Post by e12e »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #94
jm547ster wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War crimes would generally refer to breaching international treaty and/or conventions. The "Patriot" Act rebranded torture/abduction so as to not fall foul of these. "Advanced interrogation techniques" ....

> War crimes would generally refer to breaching international treaty and/or conventions Understood. But there are international laws and conventions with no binding effect, and there are those ratified and incorporated into the domestic bodies of law of its members. I’m curious if Assange’s allegations are in respect of the former or the latter.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2441 "18 U.S. Code § 2441 - War crimes"

> (a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.

> (b) Circumstances.— The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).

> (c) Definition.—As used in this section the term “war crime” means any conduct— (1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party; (2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907; (3) which constitutes a grave breach of common Article 3 (as defined in subsection (d)) when committed in the context of and in association with an armed conflict not of an international character; or (4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.

(...)

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#106

Post by bladegash »

yesbut wrote: post #92
bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

Assange is more of an editor / publisher. This is akin to the Washington Post publishing the Pentagon Papers. As a reminder, this is why the US wants to punish Assange: > Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-a...

If you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough.

Likewise, if you think leaking the pentagon papers is the same as leaking all diplomatic cables and operational communications from a period of time is the same thing, not sure I can say much to change your opinion.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#107

Post by checkyoursudo »

zarzavat wrote: post #55
skilled wrote: post #23

Since I don't understand this, I will ask it here and maybe someone can give me a clear answer. What exactly does this mean for Julian Assange? I mean, in terms of this repetitive circle of going to court and then coming back empty handed. How often can Assange's defense team appeal these decisions and at what point can we expect the "final" decision to be made? E.g. Julian is either released or he is extradited.

This was the US government's appeal because the US lost at first instance. However Assange will now also have his own cross-appeal because even though he won at first instance, the court rejected all but one of his arguments. Aside from that, it will go to the Court of Appeal and/or to the UK Supreme Court. So potentially 2 or 3 further appeals.

Possibly still the Euro Court of Human Rights as well.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#108

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #70
janmo wrote: post #5

Will he be tried by a common jury or a military one? No way a common jury finds him guilty.

>Will he be tried by a common jury or a military one? No way a common jury finds him guilty. Neither. This is the Espionage Act, so he's going to the spy court. Those doors will be closed and the jury will consist of people who work for the government. The court case will be over way way faster than you might expect.

> so he's going to the spy court

No, he isn’t going to a FISA court, those don’t try criminal cases…

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#109

Post by yesbut »

bladegash wrote: post #106
yesbut wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange is more of an editor / publisher. This is akin to the Washington Post publishing the Pentagon Papers. As a reminder, this is why the US wants to punish Assange: > Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-a...

If you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough. Likewise, if you think leaking the pentagon papers is the same as leaking all diplomatic cables and operational communications from a period of time is the same thing, not sure I can say much to change your opinion.

These espionage charges aren't about "Hillary's emails".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/05/28/indictment...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#110

Post by nextstep »

If Assange is transferred to US custody, there is a strong chance he will be killed (and possibly in a way that makes it look “accidental”). The CIA was actively planning for such scenarios in 2017: https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london...
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