Live data from Hacker News

How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

251–260 of 411 posts

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#251
post #207
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because people like their cars. You may not, but many people do. And I've traveled in many countries and it's not like cars are uniquely American.

of course they do, that's the whole issue. in many situations it is better for the whole if people don't get everything they want. that's where regulation should come in. "people like it" is shortsighted thinking, prone to local optima, and should not be the sole criterion for policy decisions

Sure, but don’t act like it’s better when it’s not. Just admit to people they can’t have the better option so they should just deal with it.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#252
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo is elitism. Even if it's right, it's elitism.

If our options are trying to remain status quo or becoming “elite” (as if thats a thing) well then I am not picking status quo. We should build things that inspire is what I am saying and yes I used a visual imagery of the least inspiring most tragically basic thing (that someone willfully chooses to become and do) that came to mind.

You can we we advocate for this position in a less snobbish way. It’s times like this I feel like a real idiot for expecting more from this site than the average Reddit trainwreck comment thread.

Guess what, you’re not that much better than everyone who disagrees with you.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#253
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's usually pretty hard. I guess it depends on your city. But imminent domain can take decades if done with a lot of community backlash.

Not trying to nitpick, but just a heads-up that the term is " eminent domain" (I know it's a pet-peeve when people don't correct me if I'm saying something wrong, but feel free to ignore me if you don't care).

Haha darn, I thought it was but I played it safe and just copied the parent comment.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#254
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does someone saying that things could be built better come off as high level elitism? I’ve stayed in small European towns where they have the cultural amenities of an American city perhaps five to six times its population. Normal people can live good, healthy lives there. Normal people struggling to survive while driving everywhere with few healthy options in sight is a manufactured issue.

When someone says : "Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesthetics." It completely comes over as high level elitism.

That is certainly true. But the problem with stroads isn't merely one of esthetics; they're expensive and inefficient, and they exist primarily because everything is designed around suburban car owners who want to do everything by car. They're completely inaccessible to anyone who can't afford a car. Stroads are themselves elitists because they exist for people who don't live there, don't care about the neighbourhood, about accessibility for others, or how much economic or environmental damage it does, as long as they're not inconvenienced by it.

Old city centers turned into massive thoroughfares destroy the communities that live there. Whole communities get sacrificed for affluent car owners from the suburbs. But this is not just harmful for poor people, it's also bad for the economy in general; they're inefficient, cost too much money to maintain, don't make enough money, so they require constant influx of subsidies, and this sort of development has lead to the bankruptcy of several US cities. It's not sustainable from any perspective.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#255
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong Town's argument is that some of these suburbs will be successful in encouraging mixed-use development and in doing so will expand their tax bases. But most of the others will fail and decline. ST are quite explicit that they mostly don't think that retrofitting suburbs should be a focus, because they believe that most of these will go bankrupt anyway, given a sufficient amount of time (because of too much infr…

But that's just it. If someone likes suburban living, and your family home is in a suburb, how do you think they'd feel about something like "suburbs are probably all going to fail anyway, so let's do a bunch of things that will definitely and quickly make them fail, and then await the glorious day when your house gets torn down and replaced by apartments, and your neighborhood becomes a replica of the inner city"?

I don't understand your reasoning.

The only thing ST says here is "let existing suburbs be what they are", which sounds like what you want as well.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#256
post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

I live in a mediaeval town. Outside of the mediaeval centre are rows of victorian terrace and town houses that grew up around a large railway junction, with warehouses, sidings etc right by the house. When I was young the railway yards had become small businesses, builders merchants, coal merchants, milk rounds, car repair garages etc. Over time they have mostly been turned into more housing and the businesses have moved to out of town 'industrial estates' or 'enterprise parks' where you need a car to get there. Many jobs have moved out there too, even professional service firms that used to fill the quaint offices of the mediaeval centre. The centre edges closer to being a museum every year, and the real commerce is spread out for car drivers around the boundary.

On one route out of town the left hand side of the road is an early-mid 20th century parkway, with a grass strip before the street with the houses on it. The other side was little developed due to being a military reservist base. In the last 10 years they have developed it with no regard whatsoever with reflecting the parkway, and the result? Stroadification

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#257

The Not Just Bikes youtube channel was quite the rabbit hole. It has convinced me that I really hate North American car-centric cities. It's a shame there's basically no country in the anglosphere designed for pedestrians like most European countries.

The Netherlands may not be an English-first country, but something like 95% of the Dutch speak English, a higher percentage than in Canada(!). In central Amsterdam, the default language may as well be English. It is also surprisingly easy for Americans to relocate here if they are in a tech career (keyword: highly-skilled migrant) or remote-working/entrepreneurial (keyword: Dutch-American Friendship Treaty). It's eve…

My son (12) has since yesterday started claiming that Netherland has the second highest percentage of English-speakers in the world. After the UK I guess? But apparently beating out several native English-speaking countries according to at least one measure.

No idea what that measure is; I have strong doubts, because as much as the Dutch do indeed have a very strong command of English as a second language, we're really not native speakers, and can be very confidently wrong about idiom or pronunciation, even if we may be better at grammar than many native speakers (your/you're; their/they're/there; could of; etc).

That said, we've got a rather extreme housing shortage at the moment, and just this week I read about foreign students who are homeless or living in tents because there's literally nothing else, so I don't think we can actually accommodate a large influx of North Americans seeking better infrastructure. Focusing on fixing your own country is probably better for everybody in the long run.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#258
post #172

I have a house in Sunnyvale, California a few blocks from El Camino Real. It's the ultimate stroad, hundreds of miles long and lined with thriving businesses and I love it. It's getting really quite clean and quiet now a ridiculous proportion of traffic around here is Teslas.

Oh god I lived a block from El Camino Real in Santa Clara and I hated it. I really felt like I was surrounded on all sides by concrete (I would say this to people at the time). I grew up in a forest and being so close to so many cars was not for me. Different strokes for different folks though I’m glad you enjoy it! But your experience is so different from mine I thought I would share.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#259

Overall, it seems simpler to say that malls, not stroads are the problem. Malls will never be pedestrian friendly. Mall will never be aesthetically pleasant. Roads going by malls are usually stroads and might be made somewhat better. But that's such a trivial question compared to the pox that is mall urban organization that I really don't care.

I guess, this is some of a hen and egg problem, as the argument is mostly about density and the economics thereof. (As the cost of extensive, car-centric infrastructure rises, the income generated per area drops and the reinvestment necessary to maintain this infrastructure approaches the median income of the inhabitants.)

Once, you are going the way of extensive infrastructure, malls may be actually some of a remedy to the problem, since they concentrate the necessary infrastructure, instead of each business occupying and maintaining a vast parking lot of their own, including all the infrastructure for access by car. (On a side note, malls were once inspired by some structural aspects of Vienna, where businesses of a kind tended to aggregate in certain areas – also an argument to density.) On the other hand, as you are aggregating your businesses in a major attractor, you're also depriving your townscape of landmarks and any reasons for the population to go and aggregate there, leading to an inevitable depletion (in terms of semantics, economics, and structural density) of centers and to even more suburban structure. Also, malls are mostly single-use areas, where you put all your business aspects of your town in a dedicated, single basket, by this decoupling and separating major aspects of life in a spacial expression. Worse may be what seems to come after malls: big businesses only, each sitting in a vast space of their own, lined up along stroads, single-use areas hundreds of feet apart, generating even less income per area, while requiring even more infrastructure to connect.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#260
It's funny. As someone who has never been to the US stroads are what define the American urban landscape for me and what I want to experience. They feel really exotic. It's like being in an American movie or TV show.
Post reply on HN