How do you fix a stroad? • Hacker News Board

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#161

Post by JetAlone » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:23 AM UTC

seoulmetro wrote: post #137

alanbernstein wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that we're already in a dark age, brought about by transforming the environment to work for cars instead of humans.

The idea that Earth being accessible to everyone at infinitely faster speeds is not a dark age. That is a golden age. It's sad that you've confused the two, but it's modern propaganda at work. The environment is damaged by humans. Not cars. If we banned cars, people would still ruin the environment, just in different ways. But that's cutting the nose off to spite the face. The truth is, cars are, for the most part, a…

The reason StreetRoadTopia is a dark age is not because there are streets and roads per se, it's that the Pedestrians, in their hubris, smugly abolished Stroadlandia. Whether we get there by streets, roads or stroads, the real golden age is the friends we made along the way.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#162

Post by Scott_Sanderson » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:24 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #130

trinovantes wrote: post #75

The Not Just Bikes youtube channel was quite the rabbit hole. It has convinced me that I really hate North American car-centric cities. It's a shame there's basically no country in the anglosphere designed for pedestrians like most European countries.

That's because people like their cars. You may not, but many people do. And I've traveled in many countries and it's not like cars are uniquely American.

Yes but designing roads that are hostile to anything other than a car, thus forcing people into cars, is very common in America.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#163

Post by zionic » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:25 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #143

seoulmetro wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's its job. It's there to outrage you, but the reality is it doesn't teach you to do much else. The reality is, low density living in countries like the US rely on this structure. The same way most of South Korea, including low density zones is built using large apartment blocks... because that's just what works for the country and there's no such thing as being a jack of all trades. I've disliked the apples to o…

NJB is not an "outrage" channel, that is utterly absurd. It's an information channel that mostly shows you how things work in the Netherlands and makes the case that it's a better way than the idiotic car-centric north American way. If you're outraged after watching his videos, it's not his fault, it's the fault of your city planners.

I’m mostly outraged that the YouTube algorithm keeps showing me his crap just because I like cities skylines. His content is trash and despite consistently disliking it YouTube just won’t learn.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#164

Post by Scott_Sanderson » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:27 AM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #134

Why do you need to “fix” a stroad? Not everyone wants to live in a young bicyclist’s idealistic utopia. The reason people like high speed roads is that it saves time, and time matters. Biking and public transit are both slow compared to cars, and most people like the convenience cars offer. The point to point nature of driving, the faster travel speeds, the protection from weather, the capacity for people/cargo, and…

You should check out the NJB you tube links. Stroads aren't fast for car travel. If you want a fast road, design for that. Stroad design gives you the worst of both worlds: slow and terrible for anything other than driving/parking.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#165

Post by freddie_mercury » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

chupchap wrote: post #100

I feel like almost all roads I see in a dense Indian city like Mumbai is a stroad. I don't think a distinct classification of a road and street as defined by strong towns can be made in a city that has heavy occupancy and pre-existing development. Then looking at a state like Kerala that is so urbanised and heavily populated I have seen a lot of houses with gates opening up into a national highway. How can anyone fix…

It sounds exactly like Ho Chi Minh City here in Vietnam. The solution isn't hard -- the government uses imminent domain, takes a few metres of land on each side, and compensates existing owners.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#166

Post by Scott_Sanderson » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #140

calt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and The idea is that a well planned city/suburb will turn car people into people that also enjoy safely not using a car some of the time. > let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere. Bleh. Such an us vs them mentality. I'm suspicious of cars because I have literally gotten hit by them while cycli…

> I'm suspicious of cars because I have literally gotten hit by them while cycling This is entirely the fault of bike culture in the US. Outside of inner city/25mph limit roads a bicycle has no place being on a normal road. 55mph+ 3 ton metal machines and tiny bikes with no bumpers or crumple zones don’t mix. It’s perfectly legal to do, and technically the person hitting you is in the wrong, but all your friends will…

Car culture apology bullshit. Why aren't there safe places for bikes and peds on those roads too? Why should cars have all the space to the point where it is practically suicidal to be outside a car?

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#167

Post by josephcsible » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

copo233 wrote: post #72

josephcsible wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'll acknowledge that that could fix this problem. My complaint then becomes that they want to make everywhere hostile to drivers before commuter light rail gets built, when there's a chance that it never will.

I mean, if you're in a growing city and you do nothing , things will eventually get shitty for suburban commuters. At that point, you might have a choice between expanding the road system or building the rail.

Okay, but let's not reduce the capacity of the road system in the meantime.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#168

Post by detaro » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:31 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #156

andbberger wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not people are anti-car as much as they are pro-human. the majority of people (in the states) would not be car people if they had alternatives. stroads are hostile to anyone not in a car. making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them.

> making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them. But this is true. I see lot of people on this thread assuming everyone just loves living in a human ant colony, and that all we need to do is educate people and they’ll throw their cars, yard, and neighborhood away to live in a 600sqft shit shack 20 stories above “walkable” retail. I’ve do…

The amount of straw men you've been building in this thread is quite impressive. please try to do better.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#169

Post by Aloha » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:32 AM UTC

readonthegoapp wrote: post #153

That is a pretty ridiculous term, imo. First, it sounds horrible to say. Second, what is a 'strong road'? Or a 'street road'? The intended definition says something about ideally moving cars as quickly as possible, and making roads and streets economically viable in terms of 'value capture'. I guess that's all well and good if you're a capitalist and primarily care about those things. If, on the other hand, you care…

I think you nailed this on the head.

I like stroads, there is a place for them. I like streets, and I like roads and highways too, I drive everywhere because my workplace is 10 miles from my house.

While a walkable neighborhood sounds great, I still gotta drive to work - and even with hub and spoke transit, it's a 15 min car ride or and hour and a half by transit. (I'm lucky, a transit line down a freeway could leave me as little as 45 min from the office)

We keep talking about these neighborhoods without considering that. They're for other people to live in.

I'd live closer to work, but then I'd spend an extra N dollars a month, and no residential neighborhood will have an office for 300 in it, and I'll still want a car.

I think we need dense place for those who like living there, and suburban ones for those who don't - plus stuff in between. I'm in the "those who don't" category. I hope to own a single family home on a quiet street someday.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#170

Post by zionic » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:34 AM UTC

detaro wrote: post #168

zionic wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them. But this is true. I see lot of people on this thread assuming everyone just loves living in a human ant colony, and that all we need to do is educate people and they’ll throw their cars, yard, and neighborhood away to live in a 600sqft shit shack 20 stories above “walkable” retail. I’ve do…

The amount of straw men you've been building in this thread is quite impressive. please try to do better.

No, you do better. They’re all over this thread, claiming that Americans simply “don’t know” about the glorious bicycle waiting to save them from cars. It’s pretty ridiculous, and honestly rather insulting.