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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#151

Post by blt »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #139
derefr wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> makes it more convenient to through traffic Yes, and this is a bad thing . The point of streets is to disincentivize through traffic, so that people can actually enjoy being outside in their neighbourhoods without worrying about getting hit by a motorist. Well-designed cities don't rely on 18-wheelers being able to pass through their suburbs. In fact, they design to prevent that. Instead, an arterial road network a…

> Well-designed cities don't rely on 18-wheelers When was the last time you saw a delivery to any restaurant or grocery store? They're almost all from 18 wheelers. Furniture store? 18 wheeler. Appliance, electronics...all still 18 wheelers. > cargo is then transshipped onto "street-sized" delivery vehicles for last-mile delivery to homes and retail shops. No, it's really not. Not in large US cities, at least.

That's the point. Most large US cities are not well-designed.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#152

Post by ragebol »

throwawaysea wrote: post #134

Why do you need to “fix” a stroad? Not everyone wants to live in a young bicyclist’s idealistic utopia. The reason people like high speed roads is that it saves time, and time matters. Biking and public transit are both slow compared to cars, and most people like the convenience cars offer. The point to point nature of driving, the faster travel speeds, the protection from weather, the capacity for people/cargo, and…

Point is that stroads don't give you that fast travel, because of all the traffic that needs getting in and off. The alternative of having a dedicated through-travel road with streets on the sides to access actual destinations does allow both fast travel and easy access to destinations.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#153

Post by readonthegoapp »

That is a pretty ridiculous term, imo.

First, it sounds horrible to say.

Second, what is a 'strong road'? Or a 'street road'? The intended definition says something about ideally moving cars as quickly as possible, and making roads and streets economically viable in terms of 'value capture'. I guess that's all well and good if you're a capitalist and primarily care about those things.

If, on the other hand, you care about making places where people actually want to live, and transport systems that allow human flourishing, you're not likely to gain an understanding of how that can be done by paying attention to only, or primarily, economics and what 'the market wants'.

Generally speaking, the last thing you should do if you want to fix roads and towns, America's in particular, but a lot of The West, is to make sure you never listen to anything a trained urban planner says. They literally helped destroy our world, and now they're trying to incrementalism away some of their crimes, but only if they control the 'value capture'.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#154

Post by adrianN »

refurb wrote: post #130
trinovantes wrote: post #75

The Not Just Bikes youtube channel was quite the rabbit hole. It has convinced me that I really hate North American car-centric cities. It's a shame there's basically no country in the anglosphere designed for pedestrians like most European countries.

That's because people like their cars. You may not, but many people do. And I've traveled in many countries and it's not like cars are uniquely American.

People like their cars because the city design makes all alternatives comically impractical.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#155

Post by analog31 »

yarnton99 wrote: post #128
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

Look for cities with universities and ~ 250k population.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#156

Post by zionic »

andbberger wrote: post #5
jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

it's not people are anti-car as much as they are pro-human. the majority of people (in the states) would not be car people if they had alternatives. stroads are hostile to anyone not in a car. making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them.

> making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them.

But this is true. I see lot of people on this thread assuming everyone just loves living in a human ant colony, and that all we need to do is educate people and they’ll throw their cars, yard, and neighborhood away to live in a 600sqft shit shack 20 stories above “walkable” retail. I’ve done that before, and it sucks.

Walking everywhere sucks. Riding bicycles on the same infrastructure as cars is both stupid and dangerous. People like having their own homes not connected to anything else with yards. People like going to restaurants and being able to park.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#158

Post by zionic »

alanbernstein wrote: post #62
JetAlone wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-stroadism is a deluded locus of control for detached intellectuals that will lead us into the fresh horrors of a dark age yet unseen. Without the strong stroadlandians to remind us of the importance of danger and adversity, we would have small walking communities of sensitive, dependent pedestrians who gradually get cut off from one another as the roads fall into disrepair.

The point is that we're already in a dark age, brought about by transforming the environment to work for cars instead of humans.

Cars didn’t construct the roads, humans did. For cars.

The arrogance in this thread is off the charts, it’s like so many of you can’t fathom that people like the way our towns are built.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#159

Post by andbberger »

zionic wrote: post #156
andbberger wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not people are anti-car as much as they are pro-human. the majority of people (in the states) would not be car people if they had alternatives. stroads are hostile to anyone not in a car. making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them.

> making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them. But this is true. I see lot of people on this thread assuming everyone just loves living in a human ant colony, and that all we need to do is educate people and they’ll throw their cars, yard, and neighborhood away to live in a 600sqft shit shack 20 stories above “walkable” retail. I’ve do…

no one is claiming education is needed, as much as changing the urban fabric to what it is in most of the developed world. nor one is saying suburbs should stop existing. some people want to live on a farm in the countryside, fine.

having a big apartment and living in a walkable area are not mutually exclusive things.

bike infra should indeed be separated from cars and pedestrians.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#160

Post by zionic »

dntrkv wrote: post #125
zoe4883 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downtown NYC and Paris are ugly, I will take our local roads anytime.

Yeah they're so ugly that people fly in from all over the world to take photos there.

Ok? People fly into atlanta and go to the varsity, and it’s some of the worst food around.

Tourism isn’t always rational.

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