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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#141

Post by QuercusMax »

labster wrote: post #135
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Don’t believe this Imperial Tartarian propaganda. The stroad is the best road. Our urban architecture is the best ever. No one wants that old stuff any more, make it concrete and glass boxes arranged around a big ol’ stroad.

Just listen to it. Stroad! It sounds strong, regal, majestic! Rolls off the tongue like music, it does!

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#142

Post by mitchdoogle »

yarnton99 wrote: post #128
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

There's tons of places similar to Ithaca all around the country

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#143

Post by scrollaway »

seoulmetro wrote: post #127
trinovantes wrote: post #75

The Not Just Bikes youtube channel was quite the rabbit hole. It has convinced me that I really hate North American car-centric cities. It's a shame there's basically no country in the anglosphere designed for pedestrians like most European countries.

That's its job. It's there to outrage you, but the reality is it doesn't teach you to do much else. The reality is, low density living in countries like the US rely on this structure. The same way most of South Korea, including low density zones is built using large apartment blocks... because that's just what works for the country and there's no such thing as being a jack of all trades. I've disliked the apples to o…

NJB is not an "outrage" channel, that is utterly absurd. It's an information channel that mostly shows you how things work in the Netherlands and makes the case that it's a better way than the idiotic car-centric north American way.

If you're outraged after watching his videos, it's not his fault, it's the fault of your city planners.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#144

Post by jdkee »

pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

I would buy a NFT of a picture of a nice stroad.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#145

Post by ehnto »

yarnton99 wrote: post #128
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

Mountain towns necessarily avoid the stroad/megalopolis layouts.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#146

Post by zionic »

jcranmer wrote: post #55
josephcsible wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> such that most people don't need to drive I disagree that they'll accomplish this for most people. In particular, what about all of the people who live in suburbs but work in the city?

Bus systems can work well to move commuters to rail-based mass-transit that bring them into the city. If the suburbs sprawl too far out, you can also plop down park-and-rides at the terminal stations of the mass transit system. Why do you specifically need to drive and park at the exact location you're going to, especially when the land cost of the storage place of your empty car is prohibitively expensive (as they t…

Buses are absolute trash. I had to rely on ones when I was poor and I’ll never do it again. The smells, the fights, being threatened and asked for cash, waiting in the rain, the cold, they’re filthy, etc.

I’m never going back to that life again, and excuse my French but anyone who tells me buses are the answer I rightly tell to fuck off. What they really want is everyone else to ride the bus while they have a car.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#147

Post by zionic »

danny_codes wrote: post #120
josephcsible wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In places that have good mass transit for their suburbs, sure. But what about all of the places that don't? Because sometimes I have to go to work in weather conditions like hailstorms, thunderstorms, or freezing rain.

I recommend watching through the "Not Just Bikes" back catalog. He has a bunch of videos that address common complaints that people who've only known car-dependent lifestyles bring up. Here's a good example of how to design functional bicycle infrastructure for a seemingly hostile climate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

That is an absolutely terrible YouTube channel. I’m not going to ride a bike 20 miles in 45 degree rain. No amount of “city planning” changes that.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#148

Post by mitchdoogle »

refurb wrote: post #129
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

This is so out of touch it's kind of offensive. Unlike you, most people struggle to make ends meet, are happy they have a job and can provide for their family. The upper-class "let's build architecture that inspires" screams "I have more money and time than I know what to do with". It's like looking down at people who eat at McDonald's (I got your reference!) with comments like "these folks wouldn't know good food if…

Poor people aren't building stroads. Cities and states are, and they do have the money to make them safer and more enjoyable for everyone.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#149

Post by xxxtentachyon »

yarnton99 wrote: post #128
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

As you say, there are plenty in the Northeastern United States. I think the primary historical factors that separates cohesive, walkable towns in the US from more stereotypical American development are the city having been established and built out prior to the 20th century (so there was some initial plan or development that predates cars), and the community either being wealthy enough or remote enough to avoid the pull of cookie-cutter post-war redevelopment. Of the places I’m familiar with, I’d call out Delaware and Montgomery County, PA, much of the Hudson Valley in New York (Hudson, Beacon, Newburgh, …). Outside of the northeast, there are remote locations (i.e. outside of commuting distance from a major city) in the southwest that have clearly defined and stroad-less cores. I’m thinking specifically of Taos County, NM and much of southwestern CO.

Ithaca is pushing into city territory (I think it has over 80k residents now), and if we’re going to count it, I’d also nominate small southeastern cities such as Savannah, Richmond, and St Augustine.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#150

Post by blt »

jimmaswell wrote: post #23
derefr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine you'd change your tune if you had to choose between driving on roads vs. stroads professionally , as a truck driver, cab driver, etc. Roads — separated thoroughfares exclusively for cars, engineered to remove anything that would require stopping — minimize travel time, gas costs, and accidents. Stroads do none of those things. There's a reason that every Uber driver who has the opportunity will take you ont…

Truckers can't be big fans of narrower streets either. It seems to me more like a stroad just takes a street and makes it more convenient to through traffic with a bit of compromise to ease of crossing but not even particularly much detriment to walking on a single side.

It's not "a bit of compromise".

The crosswalks are further apart - it takes minutes to reach them. (Crossing without a crosswalk is only an option for able-bodied fearless people.) Once you get there, the light cycles are slower. Many intersections do not even give a walk signal unless you arrive in time to press the "beg button" before the green light starts. If you're a second late, you must wait another whole cycle.

When you finally cross, you must vigilantly keep watch in as many as 3 directions for drivers making turns. You can never let your guard down - the drivers are not paying attention to people on foot. You must be ready to jump out of the way at any moment.

Crossing these streets is a hellish experience. It is obvious that you are not supposed to be there. Your presence is considered a nuisance.

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