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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#131

Post by zionic »

wilkommen wrote: post #20
lelandbatey wrote: post #2

I love that this highlights an oft-missed truth about Urbanism and shifting our urban landscape: this is going to take a long time. It's going to take many decades, and it's going to require waiting for individual human beings to literally die before we get to start making the changes we want to make. I mean, unless we can get someone really excited about this into federal office in which case it _might_ be possible…

I think a true shift towards Urbanism in our cities may be only possible if there's a whole lot of money in it for somebody with political leverage. But who? I'm not sure. Real estate developers? They're already making money hand over fist building our cities in the shitty car-centric way. When the US made its shift to car-centricity with the interstate highway system, there was a ton of money in it for oil companies…

Not everyone wants to live in a human anthill though

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#132

Post by jklinger410 »

refurb wrote: post #129
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

This is so out of touch it's kind of offensive. Unlike you, most people struggle to make ends meet, are happy they have a job and can provide for their family. The upper-class "let's build architecture that inspires" screams "I have more money and time than I know what to do with". It's like looking down at people who eat at McDonald's (I got your reference!) with comments like "these folks wouldn't know good food if…

Hey, this is just a personal attack and has nothing to do with the topic of the post.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#133

Post by 32kfjh23 »

refurb wrote: post #129
pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

This is so out of touch it's kind of offensive. Unlike you, most people struggle to make ends meet, are happy they have a job and can provide for their family. The upper-class "let's build architecture that inspires" screams "I have more money and time than I know what to do with". It's like looking down at people who eat at McDonald's (I got your reference!) with comments like "these folks wouldn't know good food if…

How does someone saying that things could be built better come off as high level elitism? I’ve stayed in small European towns where they have the cultural amenities of an American city perhaps five to six times its population. Normal people can live good, healthy lives there. Normal people struggling to survive while driving everywhere with few healthy options in sight is a manufactured issue.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#134

Post by throwawaysea »

Why do you need to “fix” a stroad? Not everyone wants to live in a young bicyclist’s idealistic utopia. The reason people like high speed roads is that it saves time, and time matters. Biking and public transit are both slow compared to cars, and most people like the convenience cars offer. The point to point nature of driving, the faster travel speeds, the protection from weather, the capacity for people/cargo, and so on are a massive quality of life boost. Most people, particularly as they age into their late 20s/early 30s and start families, like having more space. It is useful for them to have the higher quality of life you get from a large home with a yard, but with fast access to areas with shops and restaurants. Having businesses and parking immediately accessible from high speed roads gives you that.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#135

Post by labster »

pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Don’t believe this Imperial Tartarian propaganda. The stroad is the best road. Our urban architecture is the best ever. No one wants that old stuff any more, make it concrete and glass boxes arranged around a big ol’ stroad.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#136

Post by sien »

32kfjh23 wrote: post #133
refurb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so out of touch it's kind of offensive. Unlike you, most people struggle to make ends meet, are happy they have a job and can provide for their family. The upper-class "let's build architecture that inspires" screams "I have more money and time than I know what to do with". It's like looking down at people who eat at McDonald's (I got your reference!) with comments like "these folks wouldn't know good food if…

How does someone saying that things could be built better come off as high level elitism? I’ve stayed in small European towns where they have the cultural amenities of an American city perhaps five to six times its population. Normal people can live good, healthy lives there. Normal people struggling to survive while driving everywhere with few healthy options in sight is a manufactured issue.

When someone says :

  "Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesthetics."
It completely comes over as high level elitism.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#137

Post by seoulmetro »

alanbernstein wrote: post #62
JetAlone wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-stroadism is a deluded locus of control for detached intellectuals that will lead us into the fresh horrors of a dark age yet unseen. Without the strong stroadlandians to remind us of the importance of danger and adversity, we would have small walking communities of sensitive, dependent pedestrians who gradually get cut off from one another as the roads fall into disrepair.

The point is that we're already in a dark age, brought about by transforming the environment to work for cars instead of humans.

The idea that Earth being accessible to everyone at infinitely faster speeds is not a dark age. That is a golden age. It's sad that you've confused the two, but it's modern propaganda at work. The environment is damaged by humans. Not cars. If we banned cars, people would still ruin the environment, just in different ways. But that's cutting the nose off to spite the face.

The truth is, cars are, for the most part, amazing pieces of technology that allows nearly every person freedom of movement. You aren't going to change that without creating something better.

It seems like electric, self-driving cars are a possible dream, albeit even close to a pipe dream. Cars none-the-less though.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#138

Post by vdqtp3 »

32kfjh23 wrote: post #133
refurb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so out of touch it's kind of offensive. Unlike you, most people struggle to make ends meet, are happy they have a job and can provide for their family. The upper-class "let's build architecture that inspires" screams "I have more money and time than I know what to do with". It's like looking down at people who eat at McDonald's (I got your reference!) with comments like "these folks wouldn't know good food if…

How does someone saying that things could be built better come off as high level elitism? I’ve stayed in small European towns where they have the cultural amenities of an American city perhaps five to six times its population. Normal people can live good, healthy lives there. Normal people struggling to survive while driving everywhere with few healthy options in sight is a manufactured issue.

> overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo

is elitism. Even if it's right, it's elitism.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#139

Post by vdqtp3 »

derefr wrote: post #59
jimmaswell wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truckers can't be big fans of narrower streets either. It seems to me more like a stroad just takes a street and makes it more convenient to through traffic with a bit of compromise to ease of crossing but not even particularly much detriment to walking on a single side.

> makes it more convenient to through traffic Yes, and this is a bad thing . The point of streets is to disincentivize through traffic, so that people can actually enjoy being outside in their neighbourhoods without worrying about getting hit by a motorist. Well-designed cities don't rely on 18-wheelers being able to pass through their suburbs. In fact, they design to prevent that. Instead, an arterial road network a…

> Well-designed cities don't rely on 18-wheelers

When was the last time you saw a delivery to any restaurant or grocery store? They're almost all from 18 wheelers. Furniture store? 18 wheeler. Appliance, electronics...all still 18 wheelers.

> cargo is then transshipped onto "street-sized" delivery vehicles for last-mile delivery to homes and retail shops.

No, it's really not. Not in large US cities, at least.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#140

Post by zionic »

calt wrote: post #6
jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

> That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and The idea is that a well planned city/suburb will turn car people into people that also enjoy safely not using a car some of the time. > let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere. Bleh. Such an us vs them mentality. I'm suspicious of cars because I have literally gotten hit by them while cycli…

> I'm suspicious of cars because I have literally gotten hit by them while cycling

This is entirely the fault of bike culture in the US. Outside of inner city/25mph limit roads a bicycle has no place being on a normal road. 55mph+ 3 ton metal machines and tiny bikes with no bumpers or crumple zones don’t mix.

It’s perfectly legal to do, and technically the person hitting you is in the wrong, but all your friends will think you’re stupid for risking your life in this way even if they don’t say it.

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