I'm super impressed with Google's attention to Hacker News and getting their shills to come in and muddy the waters and refute. At least one guy admitted he's working for the man...
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Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
211–220 of 396 posts
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#212I remember the old days when HN users would promote the hell out of chrome. They loved it, couldn't get enough of it. A few others, including myself, were like... um guys, this browser is created by a company that makes its money from advertising that shows in browsers, do you really think this is going to turn out well?
When Google Chrome came out, it was fast, reliable, secure, and it was not Internet Explorer. Chrome was what everyone needed back then. The competition was Firefox, which performance was getting slower (before Quantum). The problem was that Google shifted priorities for Chrome (or played the long game) to better support Google/Alphabet's interest.
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m sure you are an honest person working in good faith. But we saw very similar behavior from Google around AMP. They had a very narrow reasonable sounding explanation, and just ignored all criticism and requests from both users and publishers that didn’t fit their narrative. This went on for years. Today we know AMP was also a anticompetitive plot to kill off header bidding. Why should we to believe a word of what…
> Today we know AMP was also a anticompetitive plot to kill off header bidding. I completely disagree, and I think this will become clear as information continues to come out.
Recently a large software company managed to avoid looking into a bug report for several days about an inability to dial 911 on an Android handset until enough social media indignation was generated (1). However, the org in question ignored it until enough outrage on Reddit was generated and it was eventually noticed. Not one alarm bell seems to have gone off despite all those clever people and funky machines and the much vaunted AI/ML and stuff. That's a bug that might engender criminal liability in some jurisdictions.
In this case, it appears that multiple large orgs are involved: G and M. One provides the environment and the other appears to have dropped their drawers and crapped in it but in the end a telephone should always be able to make emergency calls regardless of what is installed or configured on it.
In the end this sort of thing might look like lack of responsibility due to arrogance due to lack of competition. I'm sure other interpretations are available.
Normally the above should be considered an example of whataboutery but I think your response deserves little else. If you have something to contribute then please do but not that sort of thing.
(1) https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/09/android_911_teams/
[Edit: weird formatting snag, content unchanged]
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#214I remember the old days when HN users would promote the hell out of chrome. They loved it, couldn't get enough of it. A few others, including myself, were like... um guys, this browser is created by a company that makes its money from advertising that shows in browsers, do you really think this is going to turn out well?
Tons of people said this. They were all right.
So, what's the alternative here? What can people actually do to improve on things?
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where do people get this sense of entitlement from? Please cite one law you believe Google has broken.
> Where do people get this sense of entitlement from? Please cite one law you believe Google has broken. Just like Amazon (your employer), Google has also been fined several times in the past decade for illegal business practices. Their illegal activities are extensively documented, and in some cases they were forced to change course due to regulatory intervention. Feel free to look it up, I don't think there is a ne…
That's true, and so any thing that that company does that some rando doesn't like and claims is illegal we must assume is actually illegal, even when that rando explicitly avoids questions about what they actually think is illegal about it.
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#216Because of this, sometime in 2022 I will shut down Sitetruth, my fifteen year old ad blocking and site evaluation system. That offers add-ons for Chrome and Firefox, and puts a tag with company background info on each search result. Some search ads are removed, and some are de-emphasized. Some time next year, Google will probably force that add-on out of Chrome, as they tighten their grip over what browsers are allow…
I was working on a project about 15 years ago that could tie a website to a business address. The underlying assumption is that many/most legitimate businesses that sell products have registered trademarks. The main purpose of a mark is to enable traceability back to a legitimate, non-ephemeral source for a product. If the reader disagrees that reputable products would have associated trademarks, then stop reading here. :)
These trademarks can be represented in a domain name or TLD. IP offices that register the marks generally obtain physical mailing addresses for physical correspondence. The crux of the idea is that the domain name and TLD do not have to be issued by ICANN. As such, it does not have to follow any pre-established conventions. Trademark registration systems already have unique identifiers and classifications that can be represented in the domain name/TLD. Thus we can create a new, collision-free naming system that offers more than ICANN, e.g., a direct association to an IP office.^1 This leverages the work of IP offices to collect business addresses (or at least addresses of the registrant's lawyers/agents who would by necessity have the business address of the registrant). Under this system the perceived legitimacy of the business is reliant on the trademark registration, not a "TLS certificate". The legitimacy of the domain name/TLD becomes dependant on the trademark registration, not an unaccountable, known-to-be-corrupt entity such as ICANN. To put it simply, names require an associated trademark. The system favours businesses that want to enable consumers to trace a product back to an original, legitimate source. It is a naming system for real(TM) business. :)
Personally, if I were trying to assess the legitimacy of a business, I would rather rely on the records of a trademark office versus the records of a TLS certificate provider. But that's just me.
1. ICANN of course, to ensure its own profits, chose to allow disputes to occur and create quasi-legal dispute resolution systems instead.
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would certainly stop using Chrome
Just do it today :-) I often have a month or more long streak between every time I have to use Ch#%!e ;-) Bonus point for devs: If it works in Firefox it usually works everywhere since Firefox had always been reasonably standard compliant.
Right. I really need to finish my move off chrome. I get started, and then...
Thanks for saying this.
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Today we know AMP was also a anticompetitive plot to kill off header bidding. I completely disagree, and I think this will become clear as information continues to come out.
Is it in dispute that google added an intentional delay? If it's not, then it doesn't really matter what else comes out.
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#219It's also a major problem for many extensions, since ServiceWorkers (can) get killed every 5 minutes. No talk of a solution, just people trying hacks.
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=115225...
Example of breaking long-runnng classroom extensions used in education: (comment 63) https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=115225...
And breaking a simple image picker: (comment 36) https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=115225...
Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening
#220To anyone saying "just use Firefox", I would think again. I think Firefox is (marginally) better than Chrome, but they are also pulling some of the same bullshit: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/20736
To be fair, Firefox is the most popular of the 3-4 browsers that lets you install addons on Android. So the fact that the process is convoluted and tedious is less important - at least there's a process.