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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

201–210 of 365 posts

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#201

i think it's worth pointing out giving the still semi-inflammatory nature of the headline, no serious advocate of defunding the police has ever suggested that simply doing that is the goal. the idea is to shift funding from cops walking around with guns killing people to things that actually prevent crime from happening, and as the piece points out, even in the few places that have actually reduced funding to police,…

'Defund' is far more inflammatory than alternative phrasing. RE-form the Police -- this is a movement I can more readily support and I hope is self descriptive and accurate. Police departments have become alienated from communities because they are no longer about the mission to protect and serve the common people and the commons; they have instead become yet another type of organization using violence for control. T…

> RE-form the Police -- this is a movement I can more readily support and I hope is self descriptive and accurate.

What this is missing here from "defund the police" is that part of the point of that slogan is to take responsibility (and, yes, funding) for some duties away from police entirely and give them to new organizations that have more limited scope and much more limited use of force.

A prime example here is parking enforcement, which is often performed by the police despite having no particular need for the legal monopoly on violence that comes with police officers.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#202
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

Any data on some "red" cities experiencing rising crime? The big cities in "red" states tend to be "blue".

What a beautiful tautology, you're basically right no matter what.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#204

The knee-jerk reaction of "defund the police" to the power abuses of police officers struck me as deeply weird from the beginning. It made me wonder whether the right NOR the left had any clue left as what the role of a police force in a democracy was actually supposed to be — or whether that battle cry _really_ originated from the same forces trying to split the US society: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/o…

"Train police", "Restructure Police", have been tried, and that has just inflated police budgets.

That last one "Rebuild police" has not been tried. Many PDs need that. From the ground up. One applicant at a time. Carefully screened and lavishly trained.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#205

> Defund advocates often claim that police don’t actually prevent crimes, that they only bust the perpetrators after the fact. But that’s untrue. Police presence deters crime[citation provided]. Arresting career criminals takes them out of circulation. And, most important, effective policing bolsters a community’s faith in government-administered justice. Regardless of whether defunding is good/bad for crime, this is…

Why is it thin? There are several studies showing how policing reduces crime through a couple of measures. Intuitively it would make sense that locking up criminals would reduce crime (making them unable to commit more crime), that increasing the chance of a criminal getting locked up would reduce crime (via incentives), and just seeing more police officers around would reduce crime. I would be really surprised if fo…

People have been religious for thousands of years, it's easy for humans to believe things without evidence when it makes them feel better

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.

>Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc. How many upper-middle class kids listen to Chicago SoundCloud rappers?

I'd guess a fair number.

Literally everyone in Gen X listened to NWA.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#207

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

I've been a victim of both violent crime and property theft. Police did nothing. It was pulling teeth just to get them to write up reports so that I could file insurance claims. Police don't prevent crime. Hell, they barely even respond to crime. And cops in our city have criminally generous pensions -- when you count the pension, lots of these high school grads making 100K+/yr. To say nothing of the absurd capital e…

With most crime you rarely need someone to show up who is trained to use guns and kill people because any violent threat is long gone.

If I find my truck has been broken into and stuff is stolen, all those abilities are deeply useless to me. I need someone who is good with taking down details and filling out forms and following up and ideally investigating. Up until that leads to the act of actually arresting someone there's very little need to have people who are trained in the violent use of force involved at all.

And that's before you start asking questions about how our current police force is trained to use violent force and if they could do all that differently or not.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#208
people don't get how simple this is, this country chooses to not invest in people and more and more people are left with nothing but crime, violence against police will continue to increase following the trend of increasing funding for police. police don't make us safer. militarizing police more does not make us safer. having more cops does not make us safer. look at chicago ffs, the city loves boasting fake news about how hiring more cops and paying them more makes the city safer, but then 2-3 months down the line when statistics are realeased things look very different

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.

>Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc. How many upper-middle class kids listen to Chicago SoundCloud rappers?

> How many upper-middle class kids listen to Chicago SoundCloud rappers?

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not, but the answer is a lot.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#210
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.

That material gets absorbed differently by the different social spheres. Those FAANG kids might listen to it, enjoy it, maybe as a way to rebel, escape or act cool, but it's not part of their culture. They will grow up to be like their FAANG parents and, in turn, also look down on it. It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents. The problem is when it's part of the culture to the point where it's internalized.

> It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents.

Heh. So convincing. I can definitely tell you're not full of shit /s

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