Defund the Police meets the crime wave • Hacker News Board

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#41

Post by mitigating » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

codenesium wrote: post #38

scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Not much. It's an opinion piece. Probably doesn't belong on HN.

Would it be similar to if I wrote an article saying I'm 10ft tall?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#42

Post by reanimus » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

fatcat500 wrote: post #33

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

I dunno man, both me and my mom have been mugged before and the police didn't help. Same with when my car was broken into and someone tried to break my front door lock.

People make this argument all the time but I fail to see how the police have helped any time I've experienced any actual crime, not to mention so many others. That's not even getting into the politics of who can call the police and how the police react differently to situations, either.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#43

Post by Trias11 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

To solve violent crime we just need to give citizens ability to protect themselves.

Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag.

Yet that goes against some politicians narrative.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#44

Post by deeg » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#45

Post by plorkyeran » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:42 PM UTC

This is one of many articles which are trying to suggest that we cut police budgets and then crime went up, but the first half of that never actually happened. Oakland's police budget is the highest it's ever been and was not cut in 2020. The article it links to as a source for police budgets being cut has the headline "Cities Say They Want to Defund the Police. Their Budgets Say Otherwise.", and shows that police budgets as a percentage of major city budgets slightly _increased_.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#46

Post by felistoria » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

The police departments can get 100 billion a year and it won't matter when the DA just lets criminals walk after they are arrested. I think that is one of the main factors in the rise of crime and violence. The Waukesha tragedy is a good example of this.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#47

Post by le_epic_throw » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

Sorry, but I haven't seen any evidence for a "crime wave" in 2020-2021. FBI stats show a slight uptick in violent crimes. These rates haven't been seen since... gasp ... 2017.

If police-civilian interactions really decreased 80% (as quoted in the article), and in exchange violent crime only raised 5.6% [0], personally that shows even dramatic reductions in police presence don't lead to complete "anarchy".

I fear, given the increasing discussion around this crime """wave""", that some disastrous "tough on crime" policies are going to be (re)introduced in the coming years.

[0]https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/cri...

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#48

Post by rbanffy » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #34

The knee-jerk reaction of "defund the police" to the power abuses of police officers struck me as deeply weird from the beginning. It made me wonder whether the right NOR the left had any clue left as what the role of a police force in a democracy was actually supposed to be — or whether that battle cry _really_ originated from the same forces trying to split the US society: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/o…

> there would have been lots of great claims: "Train police", "Restructure Police", "Rebuild Police"... but what's a single good argument do Defund Police other than going back to anarchy?

I believe it's a reaction to police forces now having military gear when it should be totally unnecessary. In many places police officers don't even need guns.

Maybe spending less money in militaria and more in training would be a consequence of not having to fund military equipment, supplies, and maintenance. It'd, at least, limit the violent options police has when they are going to engage a suspect.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#49

Post by lalaland1125 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

codenesium wrote: post #38

scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Not much. It's an opinion piece. Probably doesn't belong on HN.

There is a difference between opinion pieces that are at least backed by reality and ones that are mostly hot air

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#50

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

This should probably be flagged, but I've thought about creating an HN clone where people could put some kind of code in their profile to validate their identity, to have these kinds of conversations with the same handle they use here, while keeping HN clean and tech friendly.