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‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

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Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#31
post #17

[flagged]

Yup, it's crazy. Now we're coming up on a million dead in the USA, many of them entirely preventable, and the culpability stands directly at the feet of the culture warriors on both sides of this partisan divide. (Does the previous sentence upset you and make you want to point fingers at your opposing partisan group? If so, you may be part of the problem I am describing.) Only fools try to win an argument with their…

"both sides" hardly seems fair in this context. If your spouse is drunk and about to get in a car and drive you absolutely need to win that argument.

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery took a civil war with 500,000 dead to end the polarization. Yeah, it ended, and that's good, but... is there a way where we can end that kind of polarization without 500,000 dead?

Dissolve the constitution and call for a new constitutional convention?

Maybe. Maybe. Or maybe that triggers the civil war.

Look, it's possible. It could even be what we need. But for it to work, we'd need wisdom and honest compromise, not sound-bite driven trench-warfare politics. Under current conditions, I see a low probability that it would work.

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#33

Well, we're at a point where foreign attacks on our elections are a partisan issue, the response to a pandemic which has killed some 770k citizens is a partisan issue, whether or not we can use democratic elections to select our leaders is a partisan issue, to say nothing of catastrophic climate change. But then, for much of the first century of the existence of the US whether or not some humans could own others as s…

The polarization is mostly between those who trust mainstream media and those who don’t. Not sure what can be done with media pushing disinformation for political reasons, any regulation there would risk violating the 1st amendment.

The mainstream media is very much part of the problem. For example, both the idea that the US could've avoided a substantial proportion of those pandemic-related deaths and people's beliefs about how it could've done so are the result of systematic, partisan misinformation by trusted publications like the New York Times about how the US compares to other countries, what those other countries have been doing, how well it works, the actual evidence for stuff like vaccines and masks, and so on. (One thing that stood out to me lately is that their readers evidently think Europe did much better, from the comments section - and it's obvious why, because pretty much the only comparisons with Europe the NYT publishes are ones that make the US look bad, and if they flip the other way it stops publishing them.)

Some of this unfortunately leaked into the narrative here in the UK, like the stupid idea that the reason we were failing was because our incompetent government couldn't achieve South Korean levels of mass testing - something which the media kept pushing even after their actual level of Covid testing fell massively behind the US and UK, and even after it became clear that their test and trace wasn't nearly as effective at controlling Covid as the media spin claimed.

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#34

Well, we're at a point where foreign attacks on our elections are a partisan issue, the response to a pandemic which has killed some 770k citizens is a partisan issue, whether or not we can use democratic elections to select our leaders is a partisan issue, to say nothing of catastrophic climate change. But then, for much of the first century of the existence of the US whether or not some humans could own others as s…

Sean Hannity has been openly calling for "peaceful" preparations for civil war since the election. Everyone in my town are switching their cars to matte black battle cruisers for some reason and the nasty hateful comments about the evil libs get discussed openly in any store I walk into. Shoppers and employees. The point is tipped my friend next move is yours unless you want to swing from a lamp post at the next big Drumph rally.

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#35
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, it's crazy. Now we're coming up on a million dead in the USA, many of them entirely preventable, and the culpability stands directly at the feet of the culture warriors on both sides of this partisan divide. (Does the previous sentence upset you and make you want to point fingers at your opposing partisan group? If so, you may be part of the problem I am describing.) Only fools try to win an argument with their…

> the culpability stands directly at the feet of the culture warriors on both sides of this partisan divide Both sides? Huh. > Does the previous sentence upset you and make you want to point fingers at your opposing partisan group? If so, you may be part of the problem I am describing. Interesting. Another way to think about it is that if you always punish everyone for anyone's malfeasance, there is no penalty for ma…

Sometimes the "correct" people are such insufferable, hypocritical assholes that the other side will slice its neck to spite the body, regardless of how incorrect they may be. If people can't see this game of chicken being a pretty sizable part of our issues then they should check their own biases.

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#36

Well, we're at a point where foreign attacks on our elections are a partisan issue, the response to a pandemic which has killed some 770k citizens is a partisan issue, whether or not we can use democratic elections to select our leaders is a partisan issue, to say nothing of catastrophic climate change. But then, for much of the first century of the existence of the US whether or not some humans could own others as s…

everything would be great if it weren't for that other party making everything a partisan issue

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The polarization is mostly between those who trust mainstream media and those who don’t. Not sure what can be done with media pushing disinformation for political reasons, any regulation there would risk violating the 1st amendment.

>> any regulation there would risk violating the 1st amendment. Perhaps, but its a risk the US took for decades (1938 - 1985) and the political climate was less divisive during that period. You can't say "nothing can be done" when things can and have been done that we don't do anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine

What is interesting is the loss of the "commons," here. Even if we brought back the fairness doctrine, in practice the fragmentation of the media landscape would still drive a different style of discourse. We aren't going to go back to 3 national news broadcasts.

And the justification for the doctrine extended the same way. It didn't regulate newspapers for example. Because the airways aren't privately owned, but rather leased from the public, the doctrine was considered more a regulation of this common space, than a regulation on speech on general.

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#38
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The polarization is mostly between those who trust mainstream media and those who don’t. Not sure what can be done with media pushing disinformation for political reasons, any regulation there would risk violating the 1st amendment.

The mainstream media is very much part of the problem. For example, both the idea that the US could've avoided a substantial proportion of those pandemic-related deaths and people's beliefs about how it could've done so are the result of systematic, partisan misinformation by trusted publications like the New York Times about how the US compares to other countries, what those other countries have been doing, how well…

What are the measures by which the US is doing better than continental Europe? What are some things the NYT was publishing but stopped publishing when they didn't fit the defeatist storyline?

I don't doubt that partisan propaganda spread as news is among the chief reasons the US is at war with itself right now, but you lose me when you pick the NYT as the chief culprit.

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#39
post #17

[flagged]

Yup, it's crazy. Now we're coming up on a million dead in the USA, many of them entirely preventable, and the culpability stands directly at the feet of the culture warriors on both sides of this partisan divide. (Does the previous sentence upset you and make you want to point fingers at your opposing partisan group? If so, you may be part of the problem I am describing.) Only fools try to win an argument with their…

[flagged]

Re: ‘Tipping point’ makes partisan polarization irreversible in research model

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery took a civil war with 500,000 dead to end the polarization. Yeah, it ended, and that's good, but... is there a way where we can end that kind of polarization without 500,000 dead?

Dissolve the constitution and call for a new constitutional convention?

Sure. The civil war that would inevitably result from that almost certainly wouldn't result in 500,000 dead due to modern medicine. All of the people who died in the first civil war from things that we consider simple to treat now (like infections) would survive.

But I have a feeling that's not what you meant.

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