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Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#131
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes a chord because I struggle with social anxiety...I wouldn't want to go out for a beer with any coworker, only with friends I've vetted over months/years. I hope I am in any other way capable of being a good engineer. Should I not be hired because of it?

No, you should not be. /s It's a rule of thumb, not an absolute. This part I'm not being sarcastic abour: sorry if your social anxiety problems also include not being able to get nuance.

> sorry if your

No good sentence ever started this way.

Did you consider their culture could not have the idiom? Or they could be young and inexperienced?

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#132
post #4

I can't comment on the rest of the post but this bit stood out to me: > Sometimes they talk so much about fit fit fit, but they don't even bother with a personality or IQ test (which as a former hiring manager, I find very valuable because it allows you to balance the team, not because you see how high/low people score). Just for reference, if an employer ever asks me to perform an IQ test I'm definitely walking away…

Why? It's a pretty valuable piece of information.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a personality test, which will likely be based on the MBTI - complete BS. Just because there's an entire consulting industry behind convincing you that to build the perfect team you must have "complementary personality types", does not mean it's true. Not like the IT industry has the luxury of choice based on such a lot of the time either.

I don't understand the hate towards MB. It does what any theory should do: predict behavior. And it does it pretty well, actually. I'm 52. I learned about it when I was 16, and my mother filled in some questionnaire in a computer program, and it nailed my internal thought processing to a T. Ever since, I've paid passive attention to it, and people seem to fit the archetypes pretty well, though I find the category div…

To be able to have a meaningful personality test, the subjects need strong introspection abilities.

And there are a LOT of people that are awful at introspection.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why your comment has been downvoted without an explanation. From my (admittedly ignorant) point of view it seems like a fair perspective.

The other guy probably took it as an insult that I was saying he wasn't creative. Being 'creative' is seen as 'good' when in fact it's often a huge pita.

Except I upvoted it, I am not offended by it, but didn't bother writing out a "defence" for my view, I have no desire to change those assumptions.

I do not consider myself particularly creative, no, if I was "highly creative" people would pay for my paintings and other artworks, as it stand, I'm lucky to even get invited to display them anywhere. I paint abstract acrylics, enjoy photography, program fun little projects and games, sculpt and print 3d models and build other inventions and electronics, pursue research that has no obvious practical application, the normal stuff that able people do, but I don't feel entitled to do so at my job, I work my job so I can afford to have my hobbies.

The vast, vast majority of jobs are, by their very definition, stuff that is hard or un-fun enough that you _HAVE_ to pay someone to do them.. They're the category of human endeavour that are needed (some more than others) and that people ALSO don't want to do anyway.. I'd pay money for the privilege to program _MY_ programs.. People will sing, dance, play music and write stories and pursue all these lovely, meaningful things, not because they are incentivised by money but because they WANT to, HAS to do them. And yes, there's some small fraction that get to find that their life calling coincide with their paid job, but setting the bar at that level, that is setting yourself up for failure and dissapointment.

I know, you're reading this as if I'm saying you should accept shitty jobs you hate, but read my other comments first.. I'm not saying that. I'm saying you should find an acceptable job, and find something to like about it. You need to at least give it a chance before getting offended that it's not everything you so rightly deserve.

OP asked a question, I gave an answer as best I could, it's not the one true answer, but it is my point of view, how I perceive what he has written through the lens of my own experiences and values. It is not a critique of him as a person, but of the way he comes across, and hopefully, he can use that, together with the other comments, to synthesize some kind of model that he can use to better understand his situation.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#135
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are lots of companies.. You can find meaning in anything if you look at it the right way, even if you're writing soulless fintech code to steal from the poor, there are probably interesting challenges in there.. How facebook manages to infer so much about their users based on the data they're stealing? Interesting problems even if they're distasteful. > Their profile should be an honest description ... They m…

I have a network that gets me work, they get me more work than I have time to do, this is why any serious developer needs to qualify work and turn down stuff they don't have the time for. Despite my network bring in more work than I can do I still look for more qualified work as my skills are highly valued I can find better paying work than what comes to me. You'r advice is to depend only on your network? No serious…

> Your advice is to depend only on your network?

No, but read OP again, I'm replying to someone who tells they cannot get a job, that consider themselves unlucky, I have to assume they'd be willing to actually take a job, but they somehow manage to get themselves out of it.

> You don't feel you can turn down jobs, in 2021?

You can turn down all the jobs in the world when you're in a position to do so. Beggars can't be choosers, and when I'm reading OP, I'm seeing a privileged beggar, someone who feels they deserve better than they can manage to get.

> Your advice is laughable any senior would recognise you don't do what you say..

As you say yourself, if he has no job, he is not in a position to turn any job down. "Oh! But I was a senior in my previous job! I'm way too fancy to be a senior in this, slightly worse job!" -> "Well, no worries there mate, you're not getting it!" If I found myself out of a job, I'd get a new job, _ANY_ new job, preferrably one as a developer, sure, I can't have junior in my title, but I can easily enough go back to being "just" a developer, and work my way up from there, or keep looking for a new job, but I'd no longer be in a position of no job or unlucky.

> Your advice boils down to "If I was you people would just bring me work, LOL get gud" as advice

No idea how you get that from anything I write, is it because I hinted at OP maybe _feeling_ better than he could prove to be during an interview (as far as I read, he never got far enough into a position to actually prove himself?) then again, others have declared me lacking in creativity, maybe that's why I can't see where you get that idea from :-)

My attitude is not to be just successful, it's to do your best and be grateful for what you can get, instead of demanding the world right from the bat.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#136
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are lots of companies.. You can find meaning in anything if you look at it the right way, even if you're writing soulless fintech code to steal from the poor, there are probably interesting challenges in there.. How facebook manages to infer so much about their users based on the data they're stealing? Interesting problems even if they're distasteful. > Their profile should be an honest description ... They m…

> Usually you can get a job by asking a friend to put in a word for you at their place, or just letting them know you're looking. tl;dr

But seriously man, take a job, don't make demands, accept a non-senior position, go back to doing your thing, which I assume is developing, after you've been there long enough to show them that you got the stuff, tactfully negotiate new position and salary when you've done that, is well liked and trusted and the opportunity (yearly salary negotiation or whatnot) comes around.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#137

I think your experience is much more common that many people here admit (or maybe know) and you should not feel "unlucky." It may even be most normal outcome outside of Silicon Valley or FAANG. In my area (middle eastern United States), once you hit the local salary average for software engineers, opportunities to take the next step up seem extremely rare. There is a never-ending set of jobs for people with 0-3 years…

I also recommend interviewing for SV tech companies that are not FAANG. A bunch are not leetcode heavy and pay just as well and most offer completely remote roles.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That figure must be for a particular niche, ie Software engineering based around SF.

No, it isn't: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Thanks for the link. That link says it is a the median salary for "Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers".

I thought the OP meant the median salary for the entire American population.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you should not be. /s It's a rule of thumb, not an absolute. This part I'm not being sarcastic abour: sorry if your social anxiety problems also include not being able to get nuance.

> sorry if your No good sentence ever started this way. Did you consider their culture could not have the idiom? Or they could be young and inexperienced?

Oh well, boo hoo. This feels like one of those woke "Be careful what you say" speech police bullshit. Look at me, I called you "woke", I think I'm plenty left and progressive, but the whole speech policing that seems like done a lot by the left makes me roll my eyes at vast swathes of them.

On a less emotional side, dude used the term "social anxiety", he doesn't seem like he's lacking the cultural know-how. Don't be so condescending towards people... or to put it in your terms, did you ever consider not to be so condescending in your opinions of other people?

Sorry to dang for breaking many rules.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#140
Sounds like a part is you being disagreeable, and a part is the usual dysfunction of IT companies.

> It's enough to ask a simple question as "why ?" that they freeze.

At some moment "because I told you so" needs to be an answer, otherwise you will have 10 engineers with 10 completely different opinions on how things should be done, and you will never produce anything. They might be thinking "is every decision going to be a difficult fight with this guy?"

> Hire for boring maintenance.

Managers follow their selfish incentives just like the developers do. No manager wants "overseeing the boring maintenance" in their CV. That's why no one will hire you for such role, even if it is desperately needed.

> Sometimes they throw at you some shitty challenge, exactly like a school exam where they test your memory and obedience, but not your abilities

Something makes me guess you fail pretty hard at anything involving obedience...

> Sometimes they talk so much about fit fit fit, but they don't even bother with a personality or IQ test

Yes, it means that they are looking for someone they like.

> they are looking for the exact set of skills. A clone.

Yes. No one wants to spend their money on your learning.

> Why hire a senior person as a poster, if you're not willing to be challenged and listen to different ideas?

You hire the senior person to hopefully code faster, and fix bugs faster. If you want to challenge people, you need to start your own company.

> Almost nobody seems to hire for potential these days!

Companies want to extract value from their employers as soon as possible. Because the employers often quit, especially after they learn something new and notice that their market value increased. It sucks for both sides.

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