Number of journalists in jail reaches global high • Hacker News Board

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#111

Post by iriri8 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

1cvmask wrote: post #84

laydn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

And Obama has killed and droned US citizens who were journalists and even his US citizen children with a great Orwellian response by the White House spokesman. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/how-tea...

Don’t see anyone here putting their agency into hunting, growing their own food to move, to wind down the military industrial complex their technology careers are tethered to grifting on.

PG’s four quadrants of conformism is stupid because everyone is a political conformist in the end. That’s the perimeter of our society. Annotating them with types a billionaire preferences is creepy grooming by a white old guy.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#112

Post by svachalek » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #83

boringg wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is the crux of the problem. As the definition of journalist becomes so broad that everyone falls into this category so to does the number of journalists going to prison. The counter is that if there is too strict a definition of journalism - you put to many controls on the group. It almost feels like you should need some kind of standard to qualify as a journalist (again that has issues with it as well). It…

> The counter is that if there is too strict a definition of journalism - you put to many controls on the group. How so? I don't think 'journalist' is any kind of privileged or protected group - so you don't lose anything by not being a journalist do you?

To the point that governments shouldn't be putting anyone in jail just for revealing their activity, there's a truth to that. But so far as we can use metrics like "journalists in jail" as a proxy for despotism, there's a loss when despots are hand-picking the journalists.

As to privilege and protection, that depends a lot on regional laws.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#113

Post by nverno » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

1cvmask wrote: post #84

laydn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

And Obama has killed and droned US citizens who were journalists and even his US citizen children with a great Orwellian response by the White House spokesman. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/how-tea...

It doesn't say anything about them being journalists, but instead that the guy was an 'operational' al-Qaeda target, and his kid an innocent victim. How is this an attack on free press?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#114

Post by im3w1l » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #67

teh_klev wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the CPJ definition: "CPJ defines journalists as people who cover the news or comment on public affairs in any media, including print, photographs, radio, television, and online." I'd say that both Murray and Assange legitimately fit into this definition. Unfortunately in the UK you're only considered a "journalist" if you can join the cosy boys club that is the NUJ, which is a bit like saying you're not a rea…

Don't we all comment on public affairs online?

Yeah. I would make a simple common-sense addition, that this commenting is their primary source of income.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#115

Post by finiteseries » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #105

finiteseries wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A “US journalist” whose grandfather was the personal physician to the house of Saudi’s founder, whose billionaire arms dealing uncle was involved in Iran Contra, whose first cousin was in that car with Princess Diana … He was hilariously Saudi!

How is that relevant?

Because most people genuinely aren’t aware of this, and labor under the impression a US citizen/journalist was randomly butchered by the powers of evil.

An immensely wealthy, heavily connected Saudi political actor got taken out by a new Saudi ruler asserting himself.

I am personally not okay with foreign nobles attempting to hide behind the same label as eg Assange, it’s fucking absurd.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#116

Post by abecedarius » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #101

hansvm wrote: post #85

The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. The evidence is: - A small increase in total jailed journalists (roughly matching world population growth, and the delta is a small discrete count which would yield large error bounds) - Specific examples of horrific events (matching atrocities that governments have be…

I'd also argue that at least some percentage of them deserve jail time. I don't feel any sympathy for someone like Judith Miller nor would I shed a tear for James O'Keefe if he is ever brought to justice. I'm sure the overwhelming number of journalists in jail are in jail for offending a despot rather than committing a real crime, but not 100%. I would actually wager that the biggest problem with this statistic is th…

Miller deserves censure, but what do you think makes her reporting criminal?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#117

Post by abecedarius » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

OneTimePetes wrote: post #81

chrisseaton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

If you deliver information to the public, that the public needs to know to make informed decisions your a journalist.

Yes, consider it a role and not a guild.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#118

Post by cblconfederate » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

kakkan wrote: post #87

I think this is a misleading title. Journalism as a profession shot up the last couple of years due to internet and media so the count should be normalized. What ratio of journalists are persecuted compared to total number of journalists out there?

what's your data for that? If anything, with most 'journalists' being professional retweeters, there are fewer correspondents in dangerous places. How many journalists were in afghanistan?

Reporters sans frontieres tracks journalism persecution worldwide: https://rsf.org/en/barometer

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#119

Post by cblconfederate » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #86

My hot take is that is actually a good thing, not because I want to see journalists in jail but because it means that journalists are actually doing things that upset the established order enough for them to be thrown in jail. It’s a huge improvement from the typical corporate journalist writing listicles and rewording press releases off newswires. Investigative journalism isn’t a legally protected activity and the n…

this is in no way a good thing, the world is supposed to be moving forward towards greater freedoms

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#120

Post by long_time_gone » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #98

long_time_gone wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==Well Wikipedia and the NYT are hardly unbiassed sources, but for an independent left wing view I suggest you read what Glen Greenwald wrote== I don't believe Glen Greenwald to be either unbiased or representative of the "independent left wing view". He seems to exist to encourage the exact type of strawman you just created.

What strawman would that be?

The idea that he represents some "unbiased, independent left-wing view" is the strawman. The only people I've seen suggest that Glenn Greenwald represents the left are people on the right looking to make some political point.

Could you point me to any of his articles about the 2020 Senate Intelligence report? It seemed to prove many of the things he claimed were just conspiracy theories. I can't find any articles on his Substack about it, which is odd considering how much time he spent on Trump/Russia prior.

- https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-sele...