After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
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Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#2For example, there seems to be an argument being made that a lot of the structure in big companies, as compared to start-ups, is to keep "lesser" people from making mistakes. But, I think that is far from reality.
If you're a startup, you have no employees, no sales and no users. No users means no support to give, no need to check if your latest changes fail on some obscure configurations, no infrastructure to handle the load, no critical bug-fixing of now outdated versions, etc, no fear to make significant changes and break things. No employees means no human resource handling, simpler paycheck administration, less managerial overhead. No sales means less administration, less regulatory burden, no internationalization issues, less need for documentation, and so on.
There's a different kind of company needed to innovate compared to the kind of company needed to sell a product worldwide in a competitive market with low margins.
There's only a few companies that handle can both at the same time. (Bigger ones buying up small ones don't count)
That being said, a small company where the product is in flux generally requires the engineers to have broader skillsets and tends to allow them to make more wide-ranging design choices. That just doesn't happen at bigger companies or with established products. You spend most of your time maintaining things.
Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#3Beyond a certain size, however, new individuals will not receive huge payouts if the company succeeds. The strategies by which they maximize their individual return now involve politics, power and control. Short of killing the company, their reward is maximized by behavior which may hurt the company (and in my view always hurts the company but I'm bitter). An example of such behavior are putting forward tech ideas which may not fit the company but which the individual has had experience, and therefor has seniority and status. Another would be eliminating competition with bad reviews, or failing to acknowledge good work.
Beyond a certain size (perhaps its beyond a certain time) a company will be managed by "players" using the company for their own purposes. Non-players are identified and eliminated. These players don't really care if you can get the job done, they just want large departments to manage. In fact hiring idiots whose job depends on the player's good graces is a great way to balance intelligent people with legitimate complaints.
No. Wont be working at a large company again.
Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#4Needless to say, my experience is very much the same. I see lots of unnecessary office politics, the inability to get anything done at breakneck speed as you would at a startup, and for the most part total lack of innovation. It is really disheartening, and as the OP put it, makes you go home at the end of the day very disheartened.
Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#51. The case of the mysterious Piggy Bank
This caused a lot of problems at a 2 founder startup I worked at where the guy looking after the books was semi-inadvertently skewing everything in his favour, the company paid for renovations to the office that was actually his property he'd just bought. He claimed to have 'invested' £100k (leant) but he was constantly calling in those loans. But then putting some back. And then taking it again. In tiny chunks of a few £k here and there. And the accountants were incompetent and couldn't keep track (the semi-inadvertent part of it). It took me a month and a lot of late nights with paper accounts and excel to convince the other founder what was going on. When I cut through the accountants' mess I found at one point he actually owed the company £10k for a few months.
The only reason I started looking is because I couldn't fathom how we'd spent so much money.
The guy to this day doesn't really get what he did wrong, he viewed all his companies and his own money as piggy banks for each other when they weren't doing so well. But we were operating on false assumptions. Like we were profitable now, when in fact we had been profitable, but were no longer. Because we got rid of the good sales guys.
The mess was much bigger than that, with crazy salaries for mundane jobs and some employees he knew personally investing in the company as it was 'profitable' but expanding, when in fact they were investing to pay their own salary until one of his other companies had enough money to pay back an intra-company loan. Luckily they all got their money back.
Needless to say that period was crazy political for me and very stressful. On the plus side I made a good friend out of it that I still see today. And he learnt his lesson and never ignores the books now.
2. The Tank
A similar, funnier, scenario happened at my mate's old employer where one founder (CEO) had much bigger equity than the other (CTO). This was a 15-20 person company, kinda just past the startup phase.
The CEO also had a love of tanks. And a tank museum.
The company therefore went into the tank buying business. Which meant the company couldn't expand how the CTO wanted. This led to office politics, some supporting the CEO, some the CTO. The CEO eventually promised no more tanks.
A month later a tank accidentally got delivered to the company instead of the museum. The CEO was away, when he got back in the office the CTO simply took him to the back and pointed out the window to the tank. He ended up leaving to start a new venture and took half the staff.
TL;DR From personal experience I disagree, politics enter startups when things go wrong or the CEO has a love of tanks.
Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#6Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#7I think there's another issue. At a small company, everyone (usually) has a stake. Everyone wants to make the company succeed, because having the company succeed gives each individual a huge payout. Beyond a certain size, however, new individuals will not receive huge payouts if the company succeeds. The strategies by which they maximize their individual return now involve politics, power and control. Short of killin…
Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#8Large corps are so mired in useless, mindless institutional procedures that you waste inordinate time satisfying the procedure beast, usually in areas that have nothing to do with your job (fun fact, I once worked as an analyst for a large corp and spent on average 4 hours a week taking industrial safety courses, volatile materials storage compliance training, etc.. The chances of me ever doing anything in the company in a warehouse, assembly plant, or anything other than look at a computer on a desk in an office park were 0). Sure there's some politics at the upper levels of a given organizational unit in a large company, but the pay tends to be pretty good and you'll have pretty good job security. IMHO large corps are great places to work when you are just starting out because your mistakes generally will just average out with everybody else.
Small companies/startups are such an entirely different beast it's night and day. You have huge impact in everything the company does. A single employee might account for 40% of the company revenue! The jobs are usually very versatile, you don't get stuck in a single task, you probably have to learn to do many different jobs -- you gain more experience than it looks like for a given unit of time compared to large co. For example, at large co, you might not be asked to work on contract negotiations until you've been there for 10 years. At startup you might do it from day one.
While large co's problems are mostly procedure issues, Startups are not without their issues -- and they're usually personnel problems:
1) Politics are magnified beyond belief. In large co, if my division manager was having a problem with another division manager, I might not even know. In a startup, it's like watching your parents fight over a family dinner.
2) Because everybody can have such a huge impact, screwups are magnified. A bad employee can literally sink a company. In a two person startup, that's 50% of the workforce.
3) There's very few checks against bad employees. One of the reasons large co has so many mindless procedures is to help control for bad employees. Startups don't really have a way to do that.
4) Job stability? Pffff...what's that? Pay is often not as good as large co, and benefits such as options or shares are just paper until you can buy beer with them.
I was once recruited to work at a very well funded startup that fell apart during salary negotiations. They wanted to make up for the low salary with catered meals and an all-you-can-eat pantry, dry cleaning and other benefits plus some options. I told them I'd rather trade those benefits for a pay check and would sign an agreement to never touch those benefits -- which wouldn't be hard since my position would require me to almost never actually be in the office where those benefits were offered. They backed out and it demonstrating to me that those benefits were simply flash and not worth the delta in salary they'd have to pay me.
Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#9Funny thing is we used to be in a small group that was empowered to do what it needed to. Then upper manglement decided to centralize a bunch of functions - now we have common ways of doing things that don't meet anyone's needs. So I think as companies grow they need to be more like how the Virgin companies operate - literally separate divisions in a family corporation. Empower and measure each small group to do what they need to and leave them alone.
Required reading is the Gervais Principle here: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o... After reading this, I now can associate 3 times having gone through the MacLeod Life Cycle. Now on the fourth in a growing organization. The org is in the second stage moving into the third and I'm moving from a Loser into the Clueless.
My saving grace is having tough technical problems to solve for my team like 30+ terabytes of files and db, thousands of transactions flowing, making system "Mission Critical", etc. That plus learning iOS development at home keeps me sane.
Re: After working at a startup, I'll never work at a big company again
#10In addition, working at breakneck speed and being completely accountable for failure is just not within every programmer's capacity. Some need more structure to be successful. Not everyone is a rock star programmer.
That being said the software industry is changing rapidly. Being a rockstar makes you more valuable as time goes on. Large s/w companies are having trouble even maintaining marginal talents and the workforce of programmers is dwindling. Us hackers will continue to be more valuable than ever.