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Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

cpj.org

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Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#101

Post by tootie »

hansvm wrote: post #85

The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. The evidence is: - A small increase in total jailed journalists (roughly matching world population growth, and the delta is a small discrete count which would yield large error bounds) - Specific examples of horrific events (matching atrocities that governments have be…

I'd also argue that at least some percentage of them deserve jail time. I don't feel any sympathy for someone like Judith Miller nor would I shed a tear for James O'Keefe if he is ever brought to justice. I'm sure the overwhelming number of journalists in jail are in jail for offending a despot rather than committing a real crime, but not 100%.

I would actually wager that the biggest problem with this statistic is the meta problem of underreporting of jailed journalists. I would not be surprised if there are dozens or hundreds of journalists in jail in China that we just don't even know about.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#102

Post by farss »

hansvm wrote: post #85

The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. The evidence is: - A small increase in total jailed journalists (roughly matching world population growth, and the delta is a small discrete count which would yield large error bounds) - Specific examples of horrific events (matching atrocities that governments have be…

I'm not sure that per capita is a very useful rubric to measure over time. Like I'm not saying there's no relation to population size, if you compare a tiny country to a large one, but it's not clear to me that there's a strong relationship - why a government would be expected to lock up 5% more journalists if the population grew by 5%. Or why if a country of 30 million jailed 100 journalists it should be necessarily be considered less repressive than if a country of 40 million jailed 100.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#103

Post by CapitalistCartr »

chrisseaton wrote: post #71
teh_klev wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the CPJ definition: "CPJ defines journalists as people who cover the news or comment on public affairs in any media, including print, photographs, radio, television, and online." I'd say that both Murray and Assange legitimately fit into this definition. Unfortunately in the UK you're only considered a "journalist" if you can join the cosy boys club that is the NUJ, which is a bit like saying you're not a rea…

> people who ... comment on public affairs in any media I mean... I do that, but I'm clearly not a journalist.

I guess if our fact-focused essays/comments about the issues of the day sufficiently annoy someone powerful, enough to get thrown in prison, then we're a journalist. At least the powerful, annoyed person thinks so. Something to think about while we rot away in solitary.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#104

Post by thriftwy »

VictorPath wrote: post #74

A satellite dish salesman with a storefront in Brooklyn, New York, was jailed in 2009 because he turned on the ability to watch al-Manar, a station associated with a political party that has made up 10+% of Lebanon's parliament since 2005 (both associated with the Shia organizational group in Lebanon, Hezbollah). https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/nyregion/24cable.html Germany, France and other European countries hav…

I don't see how it is different from what Iran or China is doing! Wow

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#105

Post by driverdan »

finiteseries wrote: post #68
laydn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

A “US journalist” whose grandfather was the personal physician to the house of Saudi’s founder, whose billionaire arms dealing uncle was involved in Iran Contra, whose first cousin was in that car with Princess Diana … He was hilariously Saudi!

How is that relevant?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#106

Post by treeman79 »

tootie wrote: post #101
hansvm wrote: post #85

The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. The evidence is: - A small increase in total jailed journalists (roughly matching world population growth, and the delta is a small discrete count which would yield large error bounds) - Specific examples of horrific events (matching atrocities that governments have be…

I'd also argue that at least some percentage of them deserve jail time. I don't feel any sympathy for someone like Judith Miller nor would I shed a tear for James O'Keefe if he is ever brought to justice. I'm sure the overwhelming number of journalists in jail are in jail for offending a despot rather than committing a real crime, but not 100%. I would actually wager that the biggest problem with this statistic is th…

So jail is fine for people you disagree with?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#107

Post by birdyrooster »

finiteseries wrote: post #68
laydn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

A “US journalist” whose grandfather was the personal physician to the house of Saudi’s founder, whose billionaire arms dealing uncle was involved in Iran Contra, whose first cousin was in that car with Princess Diana … He was hilariously Saudi!

Hilarious is a strange adjective to use. So to you a person is defined largely by their extended family.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#108

Post by kbenson »

d23 wrote: post #100
kbenson wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> > The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. > I think democratic backslide / the rise of authoritarianism globally is broadly recognized at this point. Assuming people agree on things like that is part of the problem. Different groups of people often have wildly different ideas about what the problems their…

The vast majority of this article consists of the exact thing you're claiming to ask for.

I wasn't criticizing this article, so I'm not sure how that's relevant?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#109

Post by hutzlibu »

golemotron wrote: post #82
delecti wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to define a journalist is a tough problem I can't easily solve, but I'd be inclined to say that once you do, any of them being in jail for any reason should count. The risk of overcounting the few journalists who might genuinely commit crimes unrelated to their journalism seems lower than the risk of undercounting journalists who were in reality jailed because of their journalism, but were officially for invented…

"Journalism" was a temporary artifact of the transition from industrial to technological economy. There was a brief time when communicating broadly was hard and required capital. Now, anyone can do it. It's important to remember how vulgar early (and pre) 20th century journalism was. Largely opinion, hearsay and sensationalism. Later, journalism consolidated and developed standards to sell itself. Once technology put…

"It's important to remember how vulgar early (and pre) 20th century journalism was. Largely opinion, hearsay and sensationalism."

Luckily today, that drastically improved.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#110

Post by iriri8 »

hansvm wrote: post #85

The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. The evidence is: - A small increase in total jailed journalists (roughly matching world population growth, and the delta is a small discrete count which would yield large error bounds) - Specific examples of horrific events (matching atrocities that governments have be…

Nearly 300/year jailed for writing words.

Let’s equivocate it away given the minimal statistical impact on society.

Ask for help when the boots on your neck. Sorry, 1 of 7 billion isn’t worth getting out of my chair.

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