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Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

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Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#91
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit confused by this statement about separation of powers. The function of a prosecutor is not a judicial function in the context of an adversarial legal system such as the common law.

True, but I think choosing which cases to prosecute (or not prosecute) based on political expediency rather than weight of evidence could be the danger here.

The notion that (theoretically independent in either case) prosecutors who are part of the judicial branch rather than the executive branch are less likely to be influenced by political considerations is worth examining. I have real doubts it is valid.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#92
post #27
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's crazy about his case is that he was sentenced to more time than somebody who just outright named an accuser on twitter. Leonna Dorrian should be disbarred. What she did was a blatant abuse of her power.

Yeah that judgement was crazy. It has been spun as being about protecting the identity of victims of sexual offences, but I don't believe that for a moment because the judgement contained a detailed account of how you could find the accusers from Murray's articles . So I personally had no idea who they were when I read his article originally, but it was easy to figure out from the judgement. If what they cared about…

I'm not surprised. I haven't had much faith in the system protecting identities since the time I had to move for witness protection only to find my new address revealed to all parties in the summons to the hearing.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#93
post #61
post #10

Craig Murray, friend of Julian Assange, was just released from a Scottish prison for the crime of jigsaw identification of some of the accusers in the trial of former First Minister, Alex Salmond despite the fact that many journalists from mainstream media had published information that allowed their readers to identify some of the accusers explicitly. So it's not just a problem of dictatorships in second or third wo…

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

Killing Khashoggi definitely cooled the US's relationship with Saudi Arabia - a relationship they are critically reliant upon.

I would be surprised if bin Salman didn't regret his decision.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#94

Dated number for Brazil, which counts 3 imprisoned journalists in 2021, not 1.

And most people would be surprised to know that the jailed journalists (downgraded as "bloggers" by traditional media) are aligned with the right-wing government (but prosecuted by the supreme court members from the previous leftist government)

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#95
post #88
post #85

The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. The evidence is: - A small increase in total jailed journalists (roughly matching world population growth, and the delta is a small discrete count which would yield large error bounds) - Specific examples of horrific events (matching atrocities that governments have be…

The first sentence in the article compares 2021 to 2020 and reflects a 4% increase in jailed journalists. This is 4x larger than the typical 1% population growth. Sure, more numbers would help. I'm not sure what sort of mindset would make someone immediately jump to defending the jailing of journalists though. > The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leave…

>> > The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence.

> I think democratic backslide / the rise of authoritarianism globally is broadly recognized at this point.

Assuming people agree on things like that is part of the problem. Different groups of people often have wildly different ideas about what the problems their countries are currently facing are, and if you make assumptions and statements that seem to align with one set of views more than another all you're doing is limiting your audience and pre-seeding a group that will discount your argument.

The way around this is the same as it's ever been (even if people seem somewhat more resistant to it). Make well reasoned arguments backed by publicly available evidence, and reference that evidence so people can verify it.

This is the bar. Not hitting it because of assumptions you're making which the bar is specifically meant to guard against is a shame. We should encourage people to do better, not excuse them when they fail.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#96
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following is not so much an attempt at arguing with the poster but to correct falsehoods and blatant misrepresentations in their post. > I do believe he is considered a journalist but he's in prison for multiple reasons. Right now he’s only in prison due to the extradition trial. The reason he isn’t out on bail is because he skipped bail in the past. > Sweden went to the extent that it's rape if you don't have wr…

>The following is not so much an attempt at arguing with the poster but to correct falsehoods and blatant misrepresentations in their post. Always welcome being corrected. Not usually good when you open a reply calling me a liar. >Right now he’s only in prison due to the extradition trial. The reason he isn’t out on bail is because he skipped bail in the past. Aka multiple reasons. I dont believe I am lying here. >Th…

>Aka multiple reasons. I dont believe I am lying here.

You said he is in prison for multiple reasons and then only went on to name the rape case before making assertions about Sweden's rape law next. Yet, Assange is not in prison due to any active rape case against him. You did not provide any other reasons in your comment.

>So you are asserting that I am a liar because rape wasn't illegal in 2010? Sure they updated the law in 2018 but rape was certainly illegal before 2018. What exactly dont i know about?

You claimed falsely that Assange is in prison due to rape allegations. Then you went on to describe the rape law in Sweden according to the latest changes which were not in effect when the case against Assange started. Ignoring your misrepresentation of those laws for the moment, it makes no sense to go on about them if they weren't what the Assange case was actually subjected under.

>This app was created in Sweden: https://legalfling.io/ which by name implies sex is illegal unless steps are taken.

Your argument that "rape is illegal" is that consent apps have been released? You understand that by your logic "renting" or "buying" are illegal unless there's a contract? Also please cite the part of Sweden's rape law that requires written consent.

>Convicted rape is up >1,000% over the last several decades in Sweden. Sweden is the rape capitol of the developed world. Are Swedish men disproportionately rapists compared to other countries like UK, Canada, or USA? Or is it their laws?

Convictions have risen by 75%, not by over 1000%.(1) Even if we ignore your gross misrepresentation of numbers, your argument is that the numbers are inherently wrong when another argument could very much be that the convictions in other countries don't represent the actual cases and might be far too low. I am not arguing for either but your logic is obviously flawed here.

Sweden is also not "the rape capital" of the world. This is a classical populist headline which is obviously incorrect after any closer inspection.(2)

(1) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-crime-rape-law-trf...

(2) https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-...

>Incorrect. That is what the prosecutor alleged but the women did not. It was fully consensual.

Actually the accuser said exactly that.(3) So it wasn't something the "prosecutor alleged" as you're claiming.

(3) https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange...

>Trump never ordered anything. It was public knowledge that he was approached on the subject and he refused to take part. Saying he wasn't going to influence the justice system. Either stopping the efforts put forth by Obama, pardoning or otherwise. As I said, he made a huge mistake doing that, pardoning assange would have been a very smart idea. Assange being thrown out of the embassy had nothing to do with trump. So ya absolutely, as you said obama era and dnc leaks is entirely what this is about.

I did not say Trump personally ordered anything. I said these things happened under his administration. And the "efforts put for by Obama" didn't result in Assange being charged. It was Trump's administration that actually charged Assange.(4)

(4) https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/20/15377996/julian-assange-w...

>I like wikileaks and such, so far the USA hasnt done much, The extradition isnt happening as far as I know. I highly doubt the appeal will work out. I guess we find out tomorrow, but i doubt the USA wins.

The extradition has only been stopped because the UK court found Assange's mental health too fragile to survive under US prison conditions. The rest of the extradition was not rejected by the UK. Assange is therefore far away from being released, I'm afraid.

>Assange will likely soon be a free man and he'll get the Epstein treatment from the DNC.

Assange's extradition was requested during Trump's administration. Yet you think the DNC is somehow about to stage an Assange suicide in the event that he might be released.

>You have a very bad understanding of news outlets in the USA. I'm not even sure where to start. You wont believe me anyway, I lie and blatantly misrepresent something.

Given the fact that almost everything you wrote on this topic in your two comments here was either entirely false or a misrepresentation, I do not really think your assumptions on my understanding of US media here do have the merit you think they do.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#98
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Wikipedia and the NYT are hardly unbiassed sources, but for an independent left wing view I suggest you read what Glen Greenwald wrote: "This not-a-real-journalist tactic was and remains the primary theory used by those who justify the ongoing attempt to imprison Julian Assange. In demanding Assange's prosecution under the Espionage Act, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) wrote in The Wall Street Journal that “Mr. Ass…

==Well Wikipedia and the NYT are hardly unbiassed sources, but for an independent left wing view I suggest you read what Glen Greenwald wrote== I don't believe Glen Greenwald to be either unbiased or representative of the "independent left wing view". He seems to exist to encourage the exact type of strawman you just created.

What strawman would that be?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#99
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

A “US journalist” whose grandfather was the personal physician to the house of Saudi’s founder, whose billionaire arms dealing uncle was involved in Iran Contra, whose first cousin was in that car with Princess Diana … He was hilariously Saudi!

His billionaire uncle Adnan also sold a yacht to Donald Trump.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#100
post #95
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence in the article compares 2021 to 2020 and reflects a 4% increase in jailed journalists. This is 4x larger than the typical 1% population growth. Sure, more numbers would help. I'm not sure what sort of mindset would make someone immediately jump to defending the jailing of journalists though. > The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leave…

>> > The article's framing of the problem (increased authoritarianism, decreased tolerance for reporting) leaves a lot to be desired without more evidence. > I think democratic backslide / the rise of authoritarianism globally is broadly recognized at this point. Assuming people agree on things like that is part of the problem. Different groups of people often have wildly different ideas about what the problems their…

The vast majority of this article consists of the exact thing you're claiming to ask for.
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