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The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

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Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#101

Post by lostmsu »

vadansky wrote: post #51
gentleman11 wrote: post #10

We keep expecting crypto to die but then again, we still have antivirus software that is spyware (avast), a scammy vpn industry, and a thriving anti vax movement. No matter how absurd it is, it might stick around for a long time now

That's the takeaway from "Betting on Zero". I kept watching to see the moment when the Ponzi scheme falls apart and Bill Ackman comes out vindicated, and it never came. It really is the case that "The market can stay irrational longer then you can stay solvent". There might be an escape velocity of irrationality where a Ponzi schemes can become legitimate.

The funny thing is that you assume crypto enthusiasts are the irrational ones.

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#102

Post by infecto »

azth wrote: post #69

Lending money (with interest obviously) is a ponzi scheme. It's not surprising to be honest, and this shouldn't be news. We've known this for literally thousands of years now. It has nothing to do with crypto currencies per se.

Can you explain the math on how lending money is a ponzi scheme? I don't entirely understand.

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#103

Post by PhileinSophia »

gentleman11 wrote: post #10

We keep expecting crypto to die but then again, we still have antivirus software that is spyware (avast), a scammy vpn industry, and a thriving anti vax movement. No matter how absurd it is, it might stick around for a long time now

[dead]

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#104

Post by eckmLJE »

usehackernews wrote: post #75
obayesshelton wrote: post #15

Crypto and NFT is one big ponzi scheme. Who on earth is spending $000,000s on a virtual ship? I sense it is a case of somebody close to the NFT or virtual world buying the asset and making out it is a great thing and then selling it on quickly. Many a scam involves somebody from the group buying something so the unwilling feel like it safe. As always, don't be left holding the baby.

Why do people on HN assume that if they don’t find something valuable, others shouldn’t either. I think of NFTs like car titles. Having the car title in your name is the only way to prove you own a car. Someone can burrow your car, and have it in their possession but that doesn’t make them the owner - the title does. When you buy a car, what you’re really buying is a little paper that says you’re the owner - without…

When you buy an NFT, you're really buying an NFT and not the artwork. It's like the opposite of a car title.

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#105

Post by KoftaBob »

toyg wrote: post #26
KoftaBob wrote: post #14

The early "wild west" days of new concepts/ideas tend to attract scammer types like this. For the most part, it tends to level out over time and the fraudulent parties are dealt with.

... once legislation is brought in. The market itself has no way to curb excessive behaviour. The problem is that cryptocurrency users exist precisely because they oppose all legislation on currency markets. So they will continue to be scammed over and over again, and be happy with it. It's just the cost of doing business, like drug dealers losing a few shipments to the feds.

My understanding is that the original motivation behind BTC and crypto was avoiding the centralized authority behind the USD and other fiat currencies.

Early adopters didn't like that the USD was influenced/controlled by one central entity, especially in the days of the 2008 financial crisis, when BTC was created.

I can't speak for all of crypto, but BTC's motivations didn't seem to revolve around "opposing all legislation", in some pursuit of anarcho-capitalism, but rather opposing currencies that are controlled/influenced by one central entity.

But to your original point, yes the most likely way that the scammers will be flushed out of the system is through regulation, just like all the other wild west phases of industries/concepts.

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#106

Post by gruez »

shoto_io wrote: post #92

I am really getting fed up with these black and white verdicts on DeFi. I am missing a nuanced view of the potential but also the possibilities behind DeFi. Yes, maybe some of these platforms and players are not legit. But constantly putting the entire crypto and DeFi world into the "shit-this-world-does-not-need" bucket is so tiering.

> I am really getting fed up with these black and white verdicts on DeFi. I am missing a nuanced view of the potential but also the possibilities behind DeFi.

Are we reading the same article here? The only mention of defi is how celius' yields isn't consistent with returns on defi platforms. I'm not really seeing it as an indictment on defi.

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#107

Post by rodiger »

marcan_42 wrote: post #89
usehackernews wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people on HN assume that if they don’t find something valuable, others shouldn’t either. I think of NFTs like car titles. Having the car title in your name is the only way to prove you own a car. Someone can burrow your car, and have it in their possession but that doesn’t make them the owner - the title does. When you buy a car, what you’re really buying is a little paper that says you’re the owner - without…

It's absurd because if you have a car, someone else doesn't have a car, and the car has intrinsic usefulness. Having the car in your name isn't valuable in and of itself; it's valuable because it allows you to claim the car as your own, and the car is useful and can only be moved, not copied. Having a JPEG as your own isn't valuable, because JPEGs can be infinitely copied at zero cost. The title for the artwork doesn…

It's more about the token than the JPEG. Gated experiences, communities, in-game items, in-game art, etc is the driving force. And for digitally-native art, there's never been a better way to sell/trade it while preserving provenance.

People are betting on the fact that we'll spend more and more of our time in digital spaces, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad bet.

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#109

Post by psyc »

usehackernews wrote: post #75
obayesshelton wrote: post #15

Crypto and NFT is one big ponzi scheme. Who on earth is spending $000,000s on a virtual ship? I sense it is a case of somebody close to the NFT or virtual world buying the asset and making out it is a great thing and then selling it on quickly. Many a scam involves somebody from the group buying something so the unwilling feel like it safe. As always, don't be left holding the baby.

Why do people on HN assume that if they don’t find something valuable, others shouldn’t either. I think of NFTs like car titles. Having the car title in your name is the only way to prove you own a car. Someone can burrow your car, and have it in their possession but that doesn’t make them the owner - the title does. When you buy a car, what you’re really buying is a little paper that says you’re the owner - without…

When you get a title from the real DMV, it's backed by a lot of mutually reinforcing real power. A group of kids can get together and play DMV, issuing titles to each other in crayon on notebook paper. In both cases there is only meaning by consensus, but NFTs sure seem much, much closer to the kids playing.

Everybody except a few conspiracy nuts believe a title is what it is supposed to be. Your friends and neighbors, your parents, the government, the courts, law enforcement, car dealers… but the only people who believe NFTs are what they are supposed to be are insiders.

Re: The biggest crypto lending company is a ponzi scheme

#110

Post by dfadsadsf »

isoprophlex wrote: post #82
etskinner wrote: post #3

> It is possible for customers to take out USD stable coin loans from Celsius, under the condition that they provide a Bitcoin or Ethereum collateral of at least twice the value of the loan. How does one provide Bitcoin or Ethereum collateral? Wouldn't you have to give away your private key (maybe in escrow), or transfer coins to them?

I don't get this, you'd have to be entirely crazy to do this right? Why post twice the loan value as collateral? Why not sell half of the crypto assets instead? On the assumption that suddenly your crypto can go to the moon?! It might equally well lose its value...

You have to pay taxes if you sell. Loaning against collateral is tax minimization strategy
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