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Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

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Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#31

Post by trompetenaccoun »

throwaway0070 wrote: post #14

What if someone is working as both a criminal and a journalist? We should not be letting criminals free just because they are also journalist. Journalist can be spy, separatist etc.

The same argument could be made about diplomats. Would you be in favor if abolishing diplomatic immunity?

If anything journalists need better protection. Of course they can be criminals, in which case they should be prosecuted. In countries without rule of law authorities can already arrest and imprison journalists for no good reason, so it doesn't make a difference. But in more civilized places, it should be made more difficult for police to detain journalists without court order. And we need programs that encourage more independent journalism. News media is in a serious reliability crisis.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#33

Post by RansomStark »

bvrmn wrote: post #22
RansomStark wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but that is a absolute statement, verging on propaganda. Of course they protect their people. For example there is significant crime in Russia, but the Russian government fields a police force that enforces the laws of Russia, jailing murderers, thieves, etc [0]. Of course there is corruption, of course some are above the law (but then is true the world over), and you need to play by the local rules, but th…

> You also have to remember that the justification for the Russian invasion of Crimea was to protect the minority Russian population living in Crimea. The only justification was to get votes in future president elections. We call this phenomenon "Crimea consensus". Current Crimea population have no access to online financial instruments (including totally Russian banking systems) and this summer was a huge crisis wit…

> The only justification was to get votes in future president elections.

That is not a justification. It might have been the reason for the expansion, but it wasn't the justification. You might have some better Russian sources but here is an annotated speech by Putin on the subject of Crimea [0].

[0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26652058

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#34

Post by RansomStark »

bvrmn wrote: post #29
RansomStark wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not see anyone in the UK arrested for a like, but there are enough examples of people arrested for a single tweet, or retweet [0][1][2]. [0] https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/man-arrested-for-offensive-sir... [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/euro-2020-arrest... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-...

Russians don't have an option to pay fee to be free. Our usual term for "incorrect" speech is starting from 3 years.

> Russians don't have an option to pay fee to be free

I'm not sure what you mean here, I assume you are referring to fines, as the UK doesn't have a paid bond, a fine is not a fee, it is a punishment. Fines are also a punishment in Russia so the idea should not be entirely alien to you. Here is a link that details the Russian Federations punishments for financial crimes, lost of fines in that area of Russian law [0].

Like I said in my original post, you have to abide by the local rules. The Russian government viewing a like as a prohibited political speech and the associated punishment would be following the local rules.

[0] https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-019-7324?transi...

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#35

Post by 1cvmask »

smackay wrote: post #26
gadders wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm English, and pretty far from Murray politically, but from what I've read in other places as well the Scottish Government, the SNP, and the Scottish judiciary seem very close - probably too close.

The fundamental problem is that there is no separation of powers between the government and the judiciary as you might find in most (all?) modern democracies. The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) acts as the governments lawyers and the prosecution service. Most of the accusers in the trial of Alex Salmond, for which he was acquitted on all charges, are close associates of the leadership of the Scott…

Isn’t that one of the definitions of dictatorships in other non-white countries according to neocon NGO/CIA/white savior class. The separation of powers that may exist de jure but no de facto when it comes to the power structure like in the US.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#36

Post by [deleted] »

ineedasername wrote: post #15
pydry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Assange did precisely the same thing and exposed Russian or Chinese war crimes the idea that he was justly imprisoned for espionage because of the methods by which he did it would be universally mocked and condemned in the west. Conversely Roman Protasevich's airplane would be downed and he would already be in prison on charges of "fighting on the front line alongside neonazis" (evidence is that he did neonazi azo…

>Roman Protasevich's airplane I don't know, Russia has a long tradition (with the USSR before it) to get creative with assassinations. Everything from poisoning tea with somewhat exotic isotopes to smearing the insides of underwear with neurotoxins, an icepick to the head, or simply gunning someone down in the street.

[deleted]

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#37

Post by 1cvmask »

ineedasername wrote: post #15
pydry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Assange did precisely the same thing and exposed Russian or Chinese war crimes the idea that he was justly imprisoned for espionage because of the methods by which he did it would be universally mocked and condemned in the west. Conversely Roman Protasevich's airplane would be downed and he would already be in prison on charges of "fighting on the front line alongside neonazis" (evidence is that he did neonazi azo…

>Roman Protasevich's airplane I don't know, Russia has a long tradition (with the USSR before it) to get creative with assassinations. Everything from poisoning tea with somewhat exotic isotopes to smearing the insides of underwear with neurotoxins, an icepick to the head, or simply gunning someone down in the street.

That’s actually a EU/US style when they forcibly downed the plane in Austria of a hesd of state Evo Morales of Bolivia. They then orchestrated a coup against Evo Morales, who had non-white indigenous support and over 50 percent, and replace him with a minority white supremacist regimes (5% vote).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#38

Post by 1cvmask »

bombcar wrote: post #5
1cvmask wrote: post #3

So we don’t classify jailed and tortured Julian Assange as a journalist even though he broke amongst some of the biggest news stories over the last 20 years. Or that the Trump administration planned on assasinating him. Or that Joe Biden is trying to extradite him on trumped up charges (pun not intended). Or the Black TV reporter Bilal Abdul Kareem from Chicago that Obama tried to kill multiple times: https://www.rol…

But we do classify others who wrote a few blog articles as “journalist” when they were/are much more obviously engaged in other activities.

We also classify people who are spies, publish fake news or lie all the time as journalists as well.

During the Church Committee it got public that the publishers of Time Henry Luce, New York Times’ Sulzberger and so many journalists worked for the CIA:

“Among the executives who lent their cooperation to the Agency were Williarn Paley of the Columbia Broadcasting System, Henry Luce of Tirne Inc., Arthur Hays Sulzberger of the New York Times, Barry Bingham Sr. of the LouisviIle Courier‑Journal, and James Copley of the Copley News Service. Other organizations which cooperated with the CIA include the American Broadcasting Company, the National Broadcasting Company, the Associated Press, United Press International, Reuters, Hearst Newspapers, Scripps‑Howard, Newsweek magazine, the Mutual Broadcasting System, the Miami Herald and the old Saturday Evening Post and New York Herald‑Tribune.

By far the most valuable of these associations, according to CIA officials, have been with the New York Times, CBS and Time Inc.“

http://www.carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/hear...

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2015/05/06/40-y...

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#40

Post by thr0wawayf00 »

pjc50 wrote: post #32

I think it's quite a serious problem that people only want to talk about one or two very specific journalists that fit into the pre-existing culture war, rather than look at this more broadly.

This is very intentional. Attacking specific journalists and broadly claiming that the entire space is corrupt and manipulated is what increases the tolerance for things like this.
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