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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#581

Post by necovek »

ngc248 wrote: post #569
MichaelBurge wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mistake to treat "China" as one coherent entity with a single unified purpose, which chooses to prioritize the mapping issue front-of-mind. China has over a billion people. That one middle manager in the maps department is personally offended by territory appearing smaller, has zero relation to the rest of the country and shouldn't affect your opinion. Many bureaucrats in the USA draw stupid lines in sand that…

China has over a billion people: true, but everything is under the control of CCP. So for anyone outside China, it is one coherent entity which is the CCP.

In a single party system, one entity as large as CCP can never be "coherent": you'll always have people pulling in different directions.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#582

Post by tablespoon »

pembrook wrote: post #573
tablespoon wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When deals like this are made, it makes it less likely China will do things to piss off the US, and vice-versa. The last thing we need are more tensions. Eh, no. That's sounds like a version of the "Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lexus_and_the_Olive_Tree#G... ), and it's bunk. China's leaders are nationalists, and it's likely they're looking to strengthen themselves…

Golden Arches Theory was intended as a joke. Trying to "debunk" a joke, does nothing to negate the trend of increased economic cooperation leading to decreased conflict. I think the author's own response is fitting to the sentiment in your comment: I was both amazed and amused by how much the Golden Arches Theory had gotten around and how intensely certain people wanted to prove it wrong. They...insisted that politic…

> Golden Arches Theory was intended as a joke. Trying to "debunk" a joke, does nothing to negate the trend of increased economic cooperation leading to decreased conflict.

I think you misunderstand. I wasn't specifically referring to the Golden Arches Theory as bunk, but the more general one you describe. It's bunk because it makes assumptions about motivations and strategies that aren't necessarily true, not because of some specific counterexample to a jokey formulation.

In China's case, I don't think it's playing the same "economic cooperation" game you assume it is. If the "decreased conflict" result has any truth behind it, it's because if increased interdependency, but it's pretty clear (for them) that's not a desired end-state, but rather a transitory state on the way to more independence and greater strength.

Those I suppose you could still have "decreased conflict" even in that case, as long as other nations remain too dependent on them to be able to object or resist if they want to do something objectionable.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#583

Post by necovek »

wolverine876 wrote: post #500
More-nitors wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

missiles and artillery can't remote-boom-boom if you can't know where they are

North Korea won't think to look at other maps?

Of course not! They choose their targets using Google Maps: nobody was ever fired for using Google Maps! :D

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#584

Post by lastbitwritten »

justicezyx wrote: post #521
lastbitwritten wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess things are going to look bad to other people when you run your country as a dictatorship. Lets meet as friends in Tiananmen square - you wear a t-shirt saying ‘what happened here in 1989?’, I’ll come dressed as Winnie the Pooh.

I am not sure what do you want to say. > Lets meet as friends in Tiananmen square - you wear a t-shirt saying ‘what happened here in 1989?’ I think the Tankman incident is a silver light in the whole event, i.e., the individual stand against the tank, and the tank decide to go different route; and eventually the confrontation was dissolved by bystanders. If you emphasize the confrontation, you'll use the t-shirt you…

I guess as long as the tank tread on your neck is Chinese - it’s not a problem.

Better to be called a facist in democracy than to live in the authoritarian dictatorship you provide unceasing support to.

I pity the people of China, who don’t have a say in their government, and have no choice but to tow the party line, What’s your excuse?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#585

Post by bayindirh »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #50

Daring Fireball [1] has another passage from the article which is illuminating with regards to any promises Apple makes about how it will resist governmental pressure to compromise its products, vis-à-vis Apple's CSAM scanning tool. "Sometime in 2014 or early 2015, China’s State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told members of the Apple Maps team to make the Diaoyu Islands, the objects of a long-running territorial di…

While tangential, when I last visited South Korea, only local mapping companies were able to offer maps of the country.

Apple / Google maps were so bare, even the proverbial crickets were missing from the maps.

When looked from my desk, Seoul's map is as detailed as any other big city now, I wonder whether it was geofenced or something. I installed a suite of apps made by local software houses to be able to navigate the city.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#586

Post by tablespoon »

hutzlibu wrote: post #580
tablespoon wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "China's leaders are nationalists" > And the US leaders are not? Way less so, as displayed in their commitments to free trade and globalization.

So you mean the current administration then? But the world kind of remembers your last 2 administration and knows that they can change just back next election. And china seems to be focused on free global trade as well. Trade embargos are more known for the US. Geopolitics is really not that simple.

> So you mean the current administration then?

All of them since the 80s at least (except for Trump, but he's not representative of the class "US leaders").

> And china seems to be focused on free global trade as well. Trade embargos are more known for the US.

What do embargos have to do with anything? Chinese leaders might be OK with free global trade, given the kinds of controls they have on domestic market access, they aren't really committed to "free trade" like the US has been.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#587

Post by raxxorrax »

FpUser wrote: post #430
mensetmanusman wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard for me to imagine the mindset of a bureaucratic drone who demands that people change the definition of physical reality.

On a contrary. Many of them are totally dumb and things like common logic and compassion are a foreign subject to them. Here is cherry on the cake from the Australian PM: "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia."

Well, you don't have accept the laws of nature and humanity is resisting a great deal, luckily, so that isn't necessarily something indicting. Depends on the context.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#588

Post by LudwigNagasena »

tablespoon wrote: post #577
hutzlibu wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"China's leaders are nationalists" And the US leaders are not?

> "China's leaders are nationalists" > And the US leaders are not? Way less so, as displayed in their commitments to free trade and globalization.

Haha, I have seen many speeches of the US presidents and they all come off as nationalist. I imagine it would be very hard to win an election in the US without mentioning that Americans are the coolest people on Earth or something like that.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#589

Post by LudwigNagasena »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #423
bell-cot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That I am aware of, "protection money" clearly implies that the payments are to a criminal organization - which is separate from, and unauthorized by, the established state. The MacRumors story seems very clear that Apple and Mr. Cook's deal was with the Chinese government, and the ruling Chinese Communist Party. Do you have information to the contrary? Or is your point merely to voice anger at China, the CCP, Apple,…

> criminal organization - which is separate from, and unauthorized by, the established state When the government of an established state violates human rights and international law (like the Geneva Convention), I don't think it's incorrect to call that government a criminal organization.

So the US is a criminal organization.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#590

Post by hutzlibu »

tablespoon wrote: post #586
hutzlibu wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you mean the current administration then? But the world kind of remembers your last 2 administration and knows that they can change just back next election. And china seems to be focused on free global trade as well. Trade embargos are more known for the US. Geopolitics is really not that simple.

> So you mean the current administration then? All of them since the 80s at least (except for Trump, but he's not representative of the class "US leaders"). > And china seems to be focused on free global trade as well. Trade embargos are more known for the US. What do embargos have to do with anything? Chinese leaders might be OK with free global trade, given the kinds of controls they have on domestic market access,…

"except for Trump, but he's not representative of the class "US leaders""

He was the last elected US president and was almost elected a 2. time.

So like it or not, but to the world, he is a very strong current representative of a US leader. And yes, a very nationalistic one at that. Who can be back to power very soon, or someone like him.

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