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Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

daemonology.net

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Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the Iranian government has any difficulty forcing telecommunications companies to install filtering / interception boxes.

So then they can only fake the traffic in their country what they can do anyway with non SSL traffic. I sounds more like this could be a global attack.

I'm not sure if I understand your comment here.

It's 'local', since you somehow need a way to intercept the traffic and there's a limit to the feasibility. Let's say this is 'local' for everyone in Iran.

But going for the certificate Colin suggests broadens the attack quite a lot: Instead of being able to server your own version of GMail/intercepting mail traffic you're now able to inject Javascript into what? 60% of the websites of the net? Basically everyone using Google Analytics now silently serves your code and the browser runs it without warnings.

So local/global is orthogonal to this impersonation 'improvement'. Even if you do this (somehow tricking a CA) yourself in the internet cafe of your choice, you would make the attack so much worse if you don't target a single service anymore and inject your code into as much content as possible.

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#42

This is something I've been talking about for a while. Back in 2009 I gave a presentation at Virus Bulletin on JavaScript security problems and highlighted some statistics on remotely loaded JavaScript: 1. 47% of the top 1,000 web sites include google-analytics.com 2. 69% include a remotely loaded web analytics solution 3. 97% load something remotely If you can attack any of these you get access to a very large numbe…

Yet people laugh at me for being a paranoid silly tin-foil-hat nerd if I tell them that I browse with Javascript disabled by default and if a site requires it I am more likely to simply close the tab and move on before I enable it.

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#43
post #42

This is something I've been talking about for a while. Back in 2009 I gave a presentation at Virus Bulletin on JavaScript security problems and highlighted some statistics on remotely loaded JavaScript: 1. 47% of the top 1,000 web sites include google-analytics.com 2. 69% include a remotely loaded web analytics solution 3. 97% load something remotely If you can attack any of these you get access to a very large numbe…

Yet people laugh at me for being a paranoid silly tin-foil-hat nerd if I tell them that I browse with Javascript disabled by default and if a site requires it I am more likely to simply close the tab and move on before I enable it.

I think it's time to install noscript for chrome.

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#44
post #21

I use NoScript. google-analytics is never activated.

I use Ghostery (linked on the DDG privacy site). Less invasive, should protect my privacy and help against the attack outlined in the blog post.

I use both. It lets me use sites that totally break with JavaScript off (lots of them!) while still nuking external tracker scripts.

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#46

All this SSL spoofing of late coincides nicely with the adoption of "always on https" by facebook/google/twitter/et al.

The average person on the coffee shop wifi isn't an SSL CA, and that's what "always on https" is defending against. SSL doesn't protect you from someone breaking into your house with a gun and forcing you to reveal your email archive. But that doesn't mean it's not useful.

I'm aware of this; however, I'm just pointing out the ironic timing of these exploits.

You teach people to fear one thing, and in this case, they leap head first into something even further beyond their comprehension. They need to start teaching Internet 101 classes in middle school.

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#47
post #18

Can anyone explain to me how I can open up a CA and get my CA certs distributed with browsers and JVMs and what not? Is there some sort of "IANA" that approves and manages this and why would they approve all sort of shady CAs which clearly are a dangerous weak link in the whole SSL construct.

There is no approval process, no central authority. If you want your CA in OS X, you talk to Apple, if you want it in Windows, you talk to Microsoft. If you want it in Firefox, you talk to Mozilla.

All vendors want market share in the Netherlands, so a few Dutch CAs get on the list; and they all want market share in China so the Chinese Ministry of Information gets on the list.

No browser wants to be the one which doesn't work with someone, somewhere's bank, so once you're on one list, you tend to get added to all of them; and it becomes nigh-on impossible for marketing reasons to remove anyone from the list ever.

15 years later, browsers have 80 CAs and 200 certificates built-in.

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#48

I'm not a big fan of handing over the security of my website to third parties by letting them inject arbitrary code into my pages, eg Google Analytics. A lot of people seem to do it without giving it any consideration though. You have to weigh up the pros and cons I agree. However, do you need that like button which works by including javascript from facebook.com, or can you live without it? Even better, can you do s…

> can you do something alternative which allows you to have a like button, but without including third party script? How about create a JavaScript library that sandboxes execution of third-party scripts by loading them in iframes based off of a different domain? This would allow site owners to embed Google Analytics or FB Like buttons without worrying about the third-party scripts getting compromised or becoming mali…

[deleted]

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#49

I'm not a big fan of handing over the security of my website to third parties by letting them inject arbitrary code into my pages, eg Google Analytics. A lot of people seem to do it without giving it any consideration though. You have to weigh up the pros and cons I agree. However, do you need that like button which works by including javascript from facebook.com, or can you live without it? Even better, can you do s…

> can you do something alternative which allows you to have a like button, but without including third party script? How about create a JavaScript library that sandboxes execution of third-party scripts by loading them in iframes based off of a different domain? This would allow site owners to embed Google Analytics or FB Like buttons without worrying about the third-party scripts getting compromised or becoming mali…

Most social plugins already have an iframe option.

E.g. search for iframe in http://developers.facebook.com/docs/opengraph/

Edit: I think I may have misunderstood you. Did you mean embed an iframe and using postMessage to control it?

Re: Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate

#50
post #2

Paging tptacek, please come to the white courtesy phone and explain that SSL is the greatest thing since sliced bread. ;-)

As far as I can see this isn't a fundamental problem with SSL, but the fact that most environments come pre-installed with certificates for CAs that aren't really worthy of trust. [Edit: Certainly looking through the list of Trusted Root CA certs on this machine I have no idea who 95% of these organisations are - I also have a certificate installed by a proxy so it can intercept any SSL traffic and inspect the conten…

Then that is a fundamental problem with SSL.

I am very partial to the Perspectives[1] solution. I wish it would gain more wide-spread support...

[1]: http://perspectives-project.org/

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