The Curious Case of Mercedes Renee Haefer

You got me to click but the title is misleading. "Paypal convinced 7000 people to attack Paypal" sounds like entrapment but it's just a quote from the defendant in the FBI's case -- a way to say that Paypal brought the DDoS on themselves by their own unjust actions. The defendant is a completely innocent 19-year-old woman who was bullied by FBI thugs, and that would have been an equally compelling and more accurate headline.

Re: The Curious Case of Mercedes Renee Haefer

#5

Post by wwalser » Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 10:32 AM UTC

I find it hard to understand how being a Mod of an IRC channel where a crime is being organized and committed could be interpreted by anyone as innocence.

If a bunch of thugs planned and organized at Mr. Smith's house before walking down to the local grocery store and through some illegal tactic prevented people from shopping, Mr. Smith is guilty of 'aiding and embedding' and 'conspiracy to commit a crime'. Even if it's not your house that they organize at, if you are in the conversation with a group of people who are planning a crime, you are guilty of `a` crime. Not particularly the same crime as the people who committed the planned crime, but you are guilty of a crime.

Then she goes on the record and admits to everything they need to convict her, brilliant.

Re: The Curious Case of Mercedes Renee Haefer

#6

Post by guelo » Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 11:29 AM UTC

wwalser wrote: post #5

I find it hard to understand how being a Mod of an IRC channel where a crime is being organized and committed could be interpreted by anyone as innocence. If a bunch of thugs planned and organized at Mr. Smith's house before walking down to the local grocery store and through some illegal tactic prevented people from shopping, Mr. Smith is guilty of 'aiding and embedding' and 'conspiracy to commit a crime'. Even if i…

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think you are either. You seem to think that if you hear of a crime being committed you are obligated to report it. I do not believe you are right, it is legal to not be a snitch, if nothing else there is the 5th amendment right to keep your mouth shut. There's also the right to free assembly.

On a side note let me ask you a question. What do you think about the fact that the WikiLeaks website has been attacked constantly for a couple years now including with many DDOS attacks, but the FBI has not opened an investigation into it, in fact it doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar? On the other hand this short-lived attack on paypal has been investigated aggressively with several raids and arrests, why would that be? Anonymous isn't attacking wikileaks, who in the US has an incentive to take down WikiLeaks?

Re: The Curious Case of Mercedes Renee Haefer

#7

Post by Wilya » Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 11:44 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #6

wwalser wrote: post #5

I find it hard to understand how being a Mod of an IRC channel where a crime is being organized and committed could be interpreted by anyone as innocence. If a bunch of thugs planned and organized at Mr. Smith's house before walking down to the local grocery store and through some illegal tactic prevented people from shopping, Mr. Smith is guilty of 'aiding and embedding' and 'conspiracy to commit a crime'. Even if i…

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think you are either. You seem to think that if you hear of a crime being committed you are obligated to report it. I do not believe you are right, it is legal to not be a snitch, if nothing else there is the 5th amendment right to keep your mouth shut. There's also the right to free assembly. On a side note let me ask you a question. What do you think about the fact that the WikiLeaks we…

A mod on irc is not a mere bypasser. It is, to some extent, someone who maintains the network.

If we assume that the network's sole purpose is to help anonymous, she is, technically, supporting anonymous.

I won't assume these (the problem is a bit more complex,of course). But that's the line of thought the FBI is following, and I can understand it. The woman in the article doesn't strike me as an obvious innocent.

Re: The Curious Case of Mercedes Renee Haefer

#8

Post by Triumvark » Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 11:57 AM UTC

> since when did associating with types considered unflattering or considered dangerous make YOU guilty of the supposed crime they committed?

RICO was passed in 1970.

Re: The Curious Case of Mercedes Renee Haefer

#9

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 12:29 PM UTC

Triumvark wrote: post #8

> since when did associating with types considered unflattering or considered dangerous make YOU guilty of the supposed crime they committed? RICO was passed in 1970.

Harbouring a known criminal is often illegal.

Re: The Curious Case of Mercedes Renee Haefer

#10

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 12:37 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #6

wwalser wrote: post #5

I find it hard to understand how being a Mod of an IRC channel where a crime is being organized and committed could be interpreted by anyone as innocence. If a bunch of thugs planned and organized at Mr. Smith's house before walking down to the local grocery store and through some illegal tactic prevented people from shopping, Mr. Smith is guilty of 'aiding and embedding' and 'conspiracy to commit a crime'. Even if i…

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think you are either. You seem to think that if you hear of a crime being committed you are obligated to report it. I do not believe you are right, it is legal to not be a snitch, if nothing else there is the 5th amendment right to keep your mouth shut. There's also the right to free assembly. On a side note let me ask you a question. What do you think about the fact that the WikiLeaks we…

WRT your side note Wikileaks apparently hold data that could embarrass many governments and hurt many corporations. Really you'd have to ask which countries and global corps don't have an interest in getting inside Wikileaks.

Have Wikileaks sought investigation of DDoS attacks, I'm going to guess not. I think the FBI would jump at a chance to investigate the internals of Wikileaks to work out were attacks are coming from - for many reasons. Whilst PayPal are being directly financially affected and, on the other hand, are extremely likely to have reported and sought investigation of every instance of substantial cyber attack against them.