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Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

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Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#511

Post by marcosdumay »

tremon wrote: post #350
marcosdumay wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it only took 2 days to create the vaccine, why do they not have an updated one? There's a deafening silence every time somebody asks this. From what I've been able to see, it's because regulatory bodies won't accept an update vaccine without 8 months of testing, and the manufacturers are doing the testing, but at those delays there isn't really any point. Why regulatory bodies won't accept updated vaccines is th…

The regulator is only tasked with approving the manufacturer's end results, I don't think they audit the production facilities or the design process. If the production process were fully transparent and the manufacturer could prove it didn't change anything except for "this one input tweak here", the approval process could likely be further streamlined -- but I don't think the authority of the regulator stretches tha…

If all you want is transparency, most governments are perfectly capable of demanding it.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#512

Post by dahart »

peteradio wrote: post #460
ptaipale wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot "elect" to not get a vaccine and be just fine. You're just relying on your luck after electing not to reduce the risks. The risks vary with different diseases, and in different people, and in different demographic environments. But with covid, it's quite clear that for all adults, the risk reduction by vaccine far outweighs the risks of vaccine complications.

Risks of vaccine complications are not the only risks to weigh against getting a vaccine. Now that these are being mandated it also becomes a risk of validating medical tyranny as an authoritarian methodology.

Is it tyranny if it’s what the majority wants and votes for? It seems like “tyranny” is being used to describe situations where democracy is working as expected, and some people just don’t want to accept the majority result. I feel like this word tyranny is being thrown around a lot lately without much rigorous thinking about the fact that we do need laws because we have no choice about having to share a lot of things including the air we breathe. Is the fact that it’s illegal to murder someone tyrannical and authoritarian?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#513

Post by bink »

potta_coffee wrote: post #469
tallanvor wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" are people intelligent to recognize that vaccination against diseases like the flu is a good idea even if we're healthy and unlikely to have significant complications. "We" know that the shot will make it less likely for us to get sick, and that we're more likely to have a mild case if we do get it after being vaccinated. "We" also recognize that getting vaccinated helps reduce the number of people who spread a…

I was in the military for years. Vaccines galore for any and every conceivable illness. I was required to have flu shots. Every single flu shot I've had gave me the flu. Full blown sickness, within a day of receiving the shot. Since leaving the military I've not had a flu shot and I've not had the flu. Obviously it's anecdotal but you'll never convince me to start taking flu shots after such repeated experiences.

That's not how flu shots work. You might have had an immune response that had you feeling down, but flu shots don't give you the flu.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#514

Post by yumraj »

bluGill wrote: post #494
yumraj wrote: post #266

Has anyone seen research around mix and match? As in which is better, stay with the original or get a different booster? Especially mRNA followed by J&J, and J&J followed by mRNA? Additionally, is there any benefit to Pfizer followed by Moderna and vice versa.

There hasn't been a complete matrix. Using moderna as the booster when you started with the other two is best. In the case of J&J moderna as a booster is significantly better, pfizer slightly. However if you had moderna to begin with we don't know. There are many other vaccines out there have haven't been studied at all as well.

In my case I had Moderna, so trying to decide whether to go with J&J or Pfizer. I guess I’ll give J&J a shot.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#515

Post by beervirus »

ostenning wrote: post #466
beervirus wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s… fine? I don’t care if I have to get a jab every 6 months. I don’t care if Pfizer and Moderna make a ton of money off this—they deserve it.

No its not fine because not everyone reacts well to these vaccines. I know numerous people, including myself, that have had crippling heart inflammation after their second dose. I can apply for an exemption but ultimately that does little for what rights I am afforded. People are being left behind, and its not okay.

>numerous people

The incidence of myocarditis after vaccination is around 2 cases per 100,000. You are lying.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#516

Post by mataug »

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

Governments and public policy makers are being excessively cautious and slow to react to changes. Governments are beholden to public opinion*, and public opinion is slow to change.

I'm not trying to justify the actions of govts, I'm merely stating that slow reaction times are considered by many to be a feature not a bug.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#517

Post by macintux »

milansm wrote: post #481

Can someone tell if this would be a good personal/societal strategy: once you had covid, or fully vaxxed, it’s much better to be among other people, to be exposed to the virus and continuously train your immune system.

Much of that depends on who else you’re exposing. I have to be careful because I’m helping my elderly mother, and no amount of vaccination can fully protect older individuals in poor health.

If I didn’t have to worry about other people, I’d feel much more comfortable with my current vaccination status.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#518

Post by peteradio »

dahart wrote: post #512
peteradio wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risks of vaccine complications are not the only risks to weigh against getting a vaccine. Now that these are being mandated it also becomes a risk of validating medical tyranny as an authoritarian methodology.

Is it tyranny if it’s what the majority wants and votes for? It seems like “tyranny” is being used to describe situations where democracy is working as expected, and some people just don’t want to accept the majority result. I feel like this word tyranny is being thrown around a lot lately without much rigorous thinking about the fact that we do need laws because we have no choice about having to share a lot of thing…

How much of your comfort in these drugs is based on who is holding power wherever you may reside?

I don't really know what you are talking about with the murder analogy. Obviously the uncomfortable issue at play here is the duality of:

Your right to swing your arms ends at my face or whatever.

Who's doing what to who here? Are you punching me with the mandate or am I punching you with my hypothetical infection and hypothetical ICU bed? Do we have to put numbers to how hypothetically infectious I am or we must fall in line and "Do whatever we can" which today happens to be getting injected with a drug that fails to prevent infection.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#519

Post by paulryanrogers »

potta_coffee wrote: post #469
tallanvor wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" are people intelligent to recognize that vaccination against diseases like the flu is a good idea even if we're healthy and unlikely to have significant complications. "We" know that the shot will make it less likely for us to get sick, and that we're more likely to have a mild case if we do get it after being vaccinated. "We" also recognize that getting vaccinated helps reduce the number of people who spread a…

I was in the military for years. Vaccines galore for any and every conceivable illness. I was required to have flu shots. Every single flu shot I've had gave me the flu. Full blown sickness, within a day of receiving the shot. Since leaving the military I've not had a flu shot and I've not had the flu. Obviously it's anecdotal but you'll never convince me to start taking flu shots after such repeated experiences.

Technically I think your reaction is from the immune response to the vaccine. Which is unpleasant but not contagious.

Now real flu viruses may have not yet given you symptoms since you stopped vaccinating. But it's possible you're becoming a carrier of the virus that spreads it to more vulnerable people. Some of whom may not be able to get vaccinated.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#520

Post by hcurtiss »

ethbr0 wrote: post #510
hcurtiss wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Relatively high mortality”? Can you think of any virus even close to COVID mortality that we take these kinds of draconian measures to prevent?

> Can you think of any virus even close to COVID mortality that we take these kinds of draconian measures to prevent? SARS-CoV-1 (2002), MERS (2012+) "Of the 7 coronaviruses, the former four can cause common cold symptoms, but SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV, and MERS-CoV can lead to severe respiratory syndromes, with about 6.76%, 9.6%, and 35.5% mortality rates, respectively." [0] We just dodged a bullet because they were regi…

That paper was a meta-study from July of last year based on papers even older, and it's loaded with problems. This paper in the Lancet [1] and this paper in BMJ on Delta [2] both have mortality at significantly lower. World-o-meter has the mortality rate in New York at 0.28%. [3]

[1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... (Among RT-PCR-confirmed cases tested by Oct 1, 2020, 342 (2·4%; 95% CI 2·2–2·6) of 14 237 died within 30 days of their positive test. Mortality was 0·4% (95% CI 0·3–0·6) at ages 0–39 years, 2·0% (1·7–2·3) at ages 40–64 years, 7·5% (6·4–8·7) at ages 65–79 years, and 15·4% (11·6–19·6) in those aged 80 years or older (figure 4))

[2] https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n579 (The absolute risk of death in this group of community identified participants, however, remains relatively low, increasing from 2.5 to 4.1 deaths per 1000 cases.)

[3] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-...

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