Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#331

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

listless wrote: post #206

nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#332

Post by pseudalopex » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

kolbe wrote: post #276

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delta now, which the original jab wasn't designed for. Current vaccines have still been "highly effective" against Delta, so I think that's why this hasn't been done: there's no point in using the big guns now when the existing weapon works well, and you might really need the big gun soon (and you can't know when). So it's better to keep it in reserve. The question now is, is Omicron "it" ?

By their own data, it’s less effective against Delta than the targeted strain. And the massive spike in excess deaths within heavily vaccinated states/countries this past fall was a pretty good sign we would have benefitted from an updated vaccine.

"Once Delta became the dominant strain, VE went from 91% to 78% against COVID-19 infection, 92% to 90% against hospitalization, and 94% to 91% against death."[1]

[1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/09/covid-19...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#333

Post by dolni » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

mitchdoogle wrote: post #304

listless wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

We get flu vaccine every year, what's wrong with getting vaccinated forever?

First of all, "we" don't all get the flu vaccine every year. Those of us who are healthy can elect not to get it and be just fine.

Secondly, the flu vaccine isn't the same vaccine every year. It is reformulated to target the flu strains that are predicted to be dominant that season.

Thirdly, the flu vaccines effectiveness varies wildly from pretty darn good to almost worthless. Usually depending on how accurately flu strains were predicted.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#334

Post by jmnicolas » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

lb0 wrote: post #202

disambiguation wrote: post #73

I have a few relatives in the medical field (all vaxxed and boosted) that have explained the booster shot is just more of the same stuff - they haven't had time to make a new recipe.. so isn't this just the same study all over again? i.e 2 shots had high protection in the beginning and waned over time. Can we expect the same from the booster shot?

Expert on tv explained it just yesterday.. 3 shots is actually what you need for most vaccines and is the common procedure for most if you remember.. 1st shot "warns" your immune system 2nd shot really triggers your immune system (that's also why most people see strongest side effects here) 3rd shot then makes your immune remind, and massively increases B+T lymphocytesmemory memory cells So yeah, you can expect a lot…

> Expert on tv explained it just yesterday.. 3 shots is actually what you need for most vaccines and is the common procedure for most if you remember..

The same so called experts that will say that now you need the 4th dose, the 5th etc. It's now obvious that it's a vaccine as a service.

Pfizer ceo's hinted at it last year, saying it would probably be recurring every 6 months.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#335

Post by ohyes » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

listless wrote: post #206

nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

You had the vaccine so you recovered quickly, if you didn’t have the vaccine you might not have recovered and needed hospitalization.

I mean, the alternative where you don’t get the vaccine includes much higher risk of lung damage, nervous system damage and total organ failure.

I think even if there was data to back this up (that somehow vaccine gives less protection than a real infection…), getting a booster every year or 6 months is well worth it given what happens with an unvaccinated covid infection. People do seem to get reinfected and die after already having it once.

I don’t think that your model of how vaccines work really makes sense. I mean, the point is to prime your immune system with antibodies to something similar but relatively harmless so you can fight off the disease immediately rather than waiting for it to get a strong foothold… in a way that is safe.

Saying it is less effective than getting sick is like totaling your car to avoid regular maintenance.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#336

Post by germinalphrase » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

TechBro8615 wrote: post #292

soared wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a weird way to phrase your second paragraph, considering hospitals have been close to full very recently in parts of the us. https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

Hospitals are not designed to be empty, though. So you can’t just point to 80% full ICU beds and say a hospital is overwhelmed. Is there any data showing ICU beds filled above carrying capacity? Or number of patients transferred to a different hospital due to bed shortage?

This is the reported situation here in Minnesota as of yesterday: “Statewide, nearly 98% of adult ICU beds and 95% of overflow, observation, and active surge/expansion beds for adults were occupied, according to the state Department of Health.”

Likewise, hospital are routinely denying transfers. I’m also not sure what “above carrying capacity” would mean here. They’re not sticking two to a bed.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#337

Post by orbifold » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #224

detaro wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and death It's a balance. E.g. Germanys current trouble is a direct consequence of official policy that had a core of "we only care about hospitalizations now", but ignored "... and based on case numbers and other statistics, what will future hospitalizations look like if we don't change anything about our approach" - not helped by election campa…

As someone who has quite some experience in running operations based on data, numbers and metrics the German approach to COVID on that front alone really puzzled me from the beginning. First the incidence of 50 that they pulled out of their ass for contact tracing, which was ignored basically the next day. Then the fact that resources weren't really increased to improve contract traceability. Then the decision to use…

It tells you a lot of the level of expertise in a country, if a physicist like Viola Priesemann previously not involved in any kind of disease modelling is able to be a significant voice in the national conversation. The 'experts' that are listened to are either numerically illiterate like Drosten or non-experts in disease control like Priesemann. Moreover the actual tools and quality of code that is used to model the situation are so far away from what would be ideal it is laughable.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#338

Post by jmnicolas » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

robotmay wrote: post #192

swayvil wrote: post #168

Now they want us to take the vax every 9 months forever. The pharmacorps have become our landlords. Which is the whole point of course.

Ignoring that the vaccines are free to the individual and therefore not at all similar to a landlord/tenant relationship, you always have the option of not taking it and dying, which is a cool loophole that gets you out of the implied contract. Life hack.

> not taking it and dying

COVID survival rate is > 99%

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#339

Post by shawabawa3 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #68

shawabawa3 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't prevent somebody catching and spreading the virus? No but they do reduce the chance you catch and spread the virus

What are you basing this on? UK data for instance shows the percentage of vaccinated covid cases is similar to the percentage of vaccinated people among the population, suggesting that vaccinated people are just as likely to catch it as the unvaccinated.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s...

"In September, unvaccinated persons had 5.8X Risk of Testing Positive for COVID-19 and 14X Risk of Dying from COVID-19 compared to fully vaccinated people"

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#340

Post by twofornone » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #327

twofornone wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was already on the scale of a cold approximately for some 90%+ of people. This virus is mild or asymptomatic in the vast majority of cases and that has been apparent for a long time. The only possible justification for vaccines at this point is to minimize overloading of hospitals because of the contagious nature of the virus, the overall complication rate is still very low. >anti-vaxxers (among a lot of things wi…

I am not aware of a common cold that resulted in hospitals being overloaded to the point planned surgery needed to be postponed. Severe cases maybe a rather small percentage, yet in absolute numbers they are big enough to be real problem. Well, if I were an anti-vaxxer, why would being called one be a slander? Either I am one or not. And yes, they are conspiracy theorists, even worse they are of becoming even more ra…

>I am not aware of a common cold that resulted in hospitals being overloaded to the point planned surgery needed to be postponed. Severe cases maybe a rather small percentage, yet in absolute numbers they are big enough to be real problem.

Which is exactly what I wrote. The problem with covid is its rate of spread, the actual complication rate per infection is very low. That's why I explicitly said the only possible justification for vaccines now is to prevent hospital overload.

>Well, if I were an anti-vaxxer, why would being called one be a slander? Either I am one or not

No, this isn't binary. Not all vaccines are created equal, and it is perfectly rational to be in support of vaccination in general but against covid vaccines. To blindly group such people with antivaxxers is disingenuous.