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Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

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Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring that the vaccines are free to the individual and therefore not at all similar to a landlord/tenant relationship, you always have the option of not taking it and dying, which is a cool loophole that gets you out of the implied contract. Life hack.

Pfizer's reaping 33billion on vax alone this year. Three guesses where that money comes from.

Saying they're free is certainly misleading.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#292
post #186

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

That’s a weird way to phrase your second paragraph, considering hospitals have been close to full very recently in parts of the us. https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

Hospitals are not designed to be empty, though. So you can’t just point to 80% full ICU beds and say a hospital is overwhelmed. Is there any data showing ICU beds filled above carrying capacity? Or number of patients transferred to a different hospital due to bed shortage?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#293
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has quite some experience in running operations based on data, numbers and metrics the German approach to COVID on that front alone really puzzled me from the beginning. First the incidence of 50 that they pulled out of their ass for contact tracing, which was ignored basically the next day. Then the fact that resources weren't really increased to improve contract traceability. Then the decision to use…

German government staff is as un-digital as you can get. They have no idea how a small modeling group would have helped. Maybe the incoming government will do better, but I am not holding my breath.

Being digital doesn't necessarily improve decision make. All the necessary data was there. RKI the German equivalent to the CDC in the US predicted the current wave rather accurately in summer, but politicians ignored it, because they wanted to win the election.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

I've been following the research closely and haven't seen this anywhere. Mind linking to the studies?

Discussion on HN of the Moderna vaccine released to GitHub. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26628233

Moderna targets one specific feature of one variant of the virus. If the virus evolves to minimize this structural feature, then this mitigation will fail.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

It could have also been much worse though no? If those 3 days turned into 5 in a hospital with another long tail of lung issues would it still be worth it just not to get jabbed again?

Or rather if those 3 days turned into death.

I'd rather take boosters every year than risk a horrible death.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it take to ramp up production? I'm at 6 months and a few days since my 2nd shot. Do I get a booster now or wait a few months in hope of an updated one?

The article's main point was 3 doses of the original vaccine is more effective than 2 for omicron. They expect to have an omicron vaccine available by March if 3 doses of the original vaccine isn't enough.

I totally agree with that assessment. What I am weighing, though, is that I would not be eligible for any potential omicron-specific booster for several months if I get a booster now. It's a risk/reward calculation.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#297
post #115
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the Pfizer jab infection and prevent transmission to others? I thought I saw Fauci and Walensky (CDC) recently lamenting that it doesn't. Most of what I hear people say is it prevents disease severity.

It's not a boolean — it appears that the vaccines reduce spread but do not prevent it entirely. The concerns are because that means we need higher vaccination rates to prevent spread compared to a vaccine which completely halts spread. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people...

Spot on - this annoys me so much.

So much, from quantum til cosmos, so much in life is not boolen / black or white.

"Oh, someone got sick though he was vaccinated, vaccinations don't work" "Oh, someone got sick, and didn't die, it must not be serious" "Oh, its is not an exponential curve, it is sigmodial... " "Oh but now 50% on the ICUs are still vaccinated??" "Oh, but vaccinated, transmission is still possible?!"

So many strawman and itself maybe right statements, but wrong conclusions drawn.

I would hope we could educate ourselves better, it is not just booleans, it is also not just relative percentages, it is never simple.

It is also always about absolute numbers, it is also about probability theory, it is even more about also conditional probability (that seems so counterintuitive to many) .. etc. etc.

But people stick to argue with single observations or boolean statements as the gound truth so many places :( It is like children argueing "Yes it is" "No it isnt".

To come back to what you said: Yes after all we know right now: The probability of transmission is reduced on multiple levels: your virus load is smaller, your infectious time is shorter, maybe more

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring that the vaccines are free to the individual and therefore not at all similar to a landlord/tenant relationship, you always have the option of not taking it and dying, which is a cool loophole that gets you out of the implied contract. Life hack.

Pfizer's reaping 33billion on vax alone this year. Three guesses where that money comes from.

Isn't that supposed to be how capitalism funds and incentivizes R&D though? There is market demand for a Thing, if you can figure out how to make Things then the market will reward that with profit.

Honestly, for being the firm to develop a vaccine for a global pandemic, $33B in revenue sounds a little light? Apple made 83B in revenue just in Q3 alone and all they do is make phones that aren't even improving that much year-over-year.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

There is little evidence right now that immunity through a natural infection is better than immunity from a vaccine. Given the strains circulating now I don’t think your concern is valid. Vaccines are better and less risky than having your naive immune system deal with covid. Maybe that will change with a future strain (though I’d bet against it), but it isn’t the case now.

> There is little evidence right now that immunity through a natural infection is better than immunity from a vaccine.

This is a very strong claim to make without any evidence or proof.

To the contrary, there is strong evidence that natural infection brings considerably better immunity than any vaccination does. [0]

Study analyzed:

> 2.5 million people in Israel, spanning March 1st 2020 to August 14th 2021.

Full study can be read in detail: [1]

[0] https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/312538 [1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#300

Is there a comprehensive white-paper anywhere with sample sizes and error bars? Otherwise this seems like an anecdote. "The sera were collected from subjects 3 weeks after receiving the second dose or one month after receiving the third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine" How do we know this study isn't just measuring the effect of that additional week? Also how many subjects was this sera pulled from? Are…

I have no idea why you believe a third dose is just marketing. It is plainly obvious that immunity decreases over time, as is the case for all vaccines against flus and similar.

A booster is the normal way to handle it. If there were a way to avoid it, at least one of the many companies working on this would have created it. And one for the regular flu, too, while they are at it, which has not happened in decades.

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