Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#281

Post by tossstone » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #152

disambiguation wrote: post #73

I have a few relatives in the medical field (all vaxxed and boosted) that have explained the booster shot is just more of the same stuff - they haven't had time to make a new recipe.. so isn't this just the same study all over again? i.e 2 shots had high protection in the beginning and waned over time. Can we expect the same from the booster shot?

I think there are two schools of thought, with little evidence so far to make one dominant. What the press seems to be assuming is that it's as simple as the immunity from vaccination simply wearing out over time. But there's at least one alternative explanation. The alternative is that the timing of the second dose was less than optimal. With little experimentation to guide the authorities, the 4-week delay was chos…

We should have the data to study that since some countries decided to wait longer between doses. The UK and Canada focused on getting as many first-doses into arms as possible before folks were eligible for a second jab.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#282

Post by hutzlibu » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #158

logicchains wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting, this differs from recent results suggesting that boosting with vaccines derived from the original Wuhan variant is relatively less effective against newer variants like delta: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261952v... .

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

"Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies."

Do you refer to the mRNA vaccinations only, or vector vaccine, too? How about the inactivated type vaccines? Simple logic says, you would be better off with those?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#283

Post by nicoburns » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

mwint wrote: post #233

mentat wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you look at rate and range of mutation and make blithe comments on how many will die based on original covid rates?

It’s the best we have, and history shows that this stuff gets more infectious but less fatal.

History shows that this stuff usually gets more infectious but less fatal, but there are examples of it working otherwise. The early 20th century "Spanish Flu" being one example where it got considerably more fatal (esp. for younger people).

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#284

Post by jessriedel » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

listless wrote: post #206

nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

Isn't the reason a vaccinated person's immune system might not specialize to wild covid as much during infection as an unvaccinated person's that the disease in the former is shorter lived? Like, the way the never-vaccinated person would get slightly lower risk in the future is by taking a much larger risk now. You're still way better off with the vaccine.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#285

Post by SquareWheel » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

yessirwhatever wrote: post #248

drewcon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unclear why the cynicism is warranted here. They’re not just making a guess, they performed an experiment that is inline with a comparable experiment from non affiliated SA scientists to yield these results. Should they not run this type of experiment and make a useful and true recommendation to the public? Would that be a better more pure scenario for you?

I'm riding on this comment here (sorry) just to say that whoever flagged the parent comment should be ashamed. I have no idea what the commentator said and the idea that anyone can just flag a comment and have it hidden is so wrong imo I don't even understand how it's a feature on HN. Very disappointed.

You can turn on showdead. It's typically just conspiracy-laden fearmongering.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#286

Post by Covzire » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

I think HN has hit a new low, people are swallowing press releases and acting like they're unquestionable. Go ahead, try to question anything in the PR in this HN thread.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#287

Post by swayvil » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

All the puppets will wisely nod their heads. And repeat whatever their facetwitter tells them. And inject whatever the priest tells them to inject. And wear the holy facecover. And think only good thoughts.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#288

Post by CountDrewku » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #195

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

Maybe, maybe not. It is clear, even to someone with zero background in vaccines, that the COVID vaccines are no resulting in sterilizing immunity. Everyone said as much since the first trials. What does this mean? IMHO it means that once we reached sufficient levels of vaccinations (no idea what that would be, definitely above 70%) COVID will be nothing more than a severe flue / cold for most of the population, if th…

We're already at 70% or above for all the age groups that matter

https://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-C...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#289

Post by ethbr0 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

freemint wrote: post #194

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

The reason why people are obsessed with case numbers and not deaths is that case numbers control the case numbers in the insufficiently immunized which predicts death toll 3 weeks ahead of time. Why would you want to control a system with 2-3 weeks of additional lag in your input data when case numbers (a thing that is somewhat easy to measure) correlates so well future deaths? Ideally politician would have some fami…

All of that plus "What kills people from COVID now?" To which the answer is "Lack of access to ICU-capable health facilities."

And what causes lack of access? Total number of people hospitalized. And how does that number grow? Exponentially.

So every public health department in the world is optimizing for "How do we prevent our limited number of ICU-capable health facilities from being overwhelmed."

And that comes down to predicting the future hospitalization rate, which can be predicted by the current case count as you said.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#290

Post by tdrdt » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

Focus on case numbers by means of PCR tests is problematic because a PCR test only measures virus RNA, not the cause of sickness or contagiousness.

If a thousand healthy people come in contact with the virus it is possible they all will have a positive PCR test while not being contagious at the same time.