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Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

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Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#241

Post by acdha »

silent_cal wrote: post #170
acdha wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: you're replying to someone who recirculates propaganda from antivaxers like Alex Berenson. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29322688

Alex Berenson, unlike Pfizer, has nothing to gain from taking the journalistic stance he holds. In fact he was banned from Twitter for it. In your mind, an independent/skeptical/critical journalist is a propagandist, and Pfizer is a neutral public health authority? Time to wake up.

Alex Berenson relies on attention to sell his books (remember when he was telling parents that cannabis causes psychosis and violence? Great way to get on TV telling people about your book.) and his COVID denial sells ads on his substack and almost turned into a Fox show.

Pfizer also has a potential conflict of interest, which is why people are talking about what they've done going through the scientific process. That's very different from where Berenson makes up something outrageous, hits send, and then complains about being “canceled” if he gets criticized by real journalists or scientists because Pfizer employees people who are experts in the field, runs studies following standard methodology, publishes their data and analysis and it's critically examined by independent experts. That doesn't mean it's perfect but it's a completely different level of rigor than a self-published screed.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#242

Post by pyjarrett »

mwint wrote: post #55
eCa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can show that the product helps to save lifes and at some point get back to a normalcy, and especially if there’s no other significantly better product available, I really don’t have an issue with that.

At this point, does anyone believe we’ll get back to normalcy? What’s the path?

My state in the US has already been back to near 2018 normalcy for probably close to a year. The biggest change is that it's now faux pas to cough or sneeze in public, so people stay home when they're sick, so I can't remember the last time I heard a sneeze or cough in a store. Most schools are in-person, and temperature checks on entry. Some didn't require masks during class last year though that policy was reverted due to Delta, and local public schools are now maskless. Doctor's offices and government buildings are some of the only places requiring masks and the few companies with mask signs have about half their employees violating their own policy. However, masks can be only be recommended and not required for entry and the majority of people (probably 3:1 at least) don't wear them.

Most people have accepted COVID is here permanently. We're at ~50% vaccination and most vaccinated people I know says they won't get a booster because "it was supposed to make things go back to normal the first time."

Apathy is set in hard, and control of the message is outside the hands of the government and media here. Delta scared people a bunch, but after about a month, most people reverted back to not caring. I don't know anyone who is talking about Omicron, so I think every additional event just numbs more people.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#243

Post by dd36 »

bertr4nd wrote: post #164
mwint wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to be concerned. Another commenter brought up that the death rate per 100k is in the range of 1.1 (vaccinated) to ~5 (unvaccinated). Car accidents are >10/100k/yr.

5/100k deaths among unvaccinated can’t possibly be right, can it? There have been 790k Covid deaths so far in the US out of a population of 330 million, which is over 200/100k.

And that’s not including the recent studies of high death rates for those with severe covid within a year.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#244

Post by lordlimecat »

listless wrote: post #206
nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

By the time you're experiencing symptoms, the infection has been present for some time. Most of the symptoms you experience are from the immune response mounted, but do not represent the time your immune system was exposed to the virus.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#245

Post by pcbro141 »

lb0 wrote: post #202
disambiguation wrote: post #73

I have a few relatives in the medical field (all vaxxed and boosted) that have explained the booster shot is just more of the same stuff - they haven't had time to make a new recipe.. so isn't this just the same study all over again? i.e 2 shots had high protection in the beginning and waned over time. Can we expect the same from the booster shot?

Expert on tv explained it just yesterday.. 3 shots is actually what you need for most vaccines and is the common procedure for most if you remember.. 1st shot "warns" your immune system 2nd shot really triggers your immune system (that's also why most people see strongest side effects here) 3rd shot then makes your immune remind, and massively increases B+T lymphocytesmemory memory cells So yeah, you can expect a lot…

That's strange. I seem to remember the Pfizer/Moderna being advertised as a 2 dose regimen earlier in the year, anyone else remember that?

Seems like we'll be on to "akshually you need 4 shots to be fully vaccinated" like Israel in a few months.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#246

Post by podgaj »

thehappypm wrote: post #196
swayvil wrote: post #168

Now they want us to take the vax every 9 months forever. The pharmacorps have become our landlords. Which is the whole point of course.

They cost $20 every six months max.

What a meaningless way to phrase it. "Only $20"? Ha! How about this phrasing...

Pfizer Expects $33.5 Billion In Vaccine Revenue In 2021 https://www.forbes.com/sites/aayushipratap/2021/07/28/pfizer...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/02/business/pfizer-earnings/inde... The vaccine business alone was responsible for more than 60% of the company's sales, as vaccine revenue rose to $14.6 billion from only $1.7 billion a year earlier. The company said its Covid vaccine sales accounted for $13 billion of that revenue. Revenue outside of its Covid vaccine business was up a far more modest 7%.

In secret vaccine contracts with governments, Pfizer took hard line in push for profit, report says https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/19/secret-vacci...

Pfizer, BioNTech, and Moderna making $1,000 profit every second while world’s poorest countries remain largely unvaccinated https://www.oxfamamerica.org/press/press-releases/pfizer-bio...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#247

Post by dragontamer »

avsteele wrote: post #160

If there is an expert in immunology here I'd really like to ask a question: Aren't antibody titers just one measure of immunity? Since ~everyone with just two shots get them a while ago, and people receiving the boosters are receiving them now, wouldn't we expect must higher levels of neutralizing antibodies in boosted people? I know the number of antibodies fades over time, (whether from vaccine or infection) but th…

> Aren't antibody titers just one measure of immunity?

Yes. But Omicron just came out 3 weeks ago.

--------

We start with the quickest measures of immunity. As better data comes in, we change our opinion. The gold-standard is a large-scale, multi-month A/B test. There simply hasn't been enough time for that to be created.

If these smaller tests prove adequate, we probably will skip the large-scale test... much like Alpha and Delta, it seems like these variants don't last very long in practice. We just barely finished studying Delta's effects across a variety of treatments, and all of that data is about to become obsolete with a new variant.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#248

Post by yessirwhatever »

drewcon wrote: post #12
tazjin wrote: post #3

Product manufacturer recommends use of its product. Surprise!

Unclear why the cynicism is warranted here. They’re not just making a guess, they performed an experiment that is inline with a comparable experiment from non affiliated SA scientists to yield these results. Should they not run this type of experiment and make a useful and true recommendation to the public? Would that be a better more pure scenario for you?

I'm riding on this comment here (sorry) just to say that whoever flagged the parent comment should be ashamed. I have no idea what the commentator said and the idea that anyone can just flag a comment and have it hidden is so wrong imo I don't even understand how it's a feature on HN.

Very disappointed.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#249

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

mentat wrote: post #185
stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

"Remain obsessed" with transmission of a highly contagious virus that has shown significant ability to mutate at scale? That sure seems worth being obsessed about. When it mutates to spread past all current defenses then consistently kill because we failed to stop current spread it will indeed be "depressing".

If you ignore the context and the multifaceted consequences of lockdowns etc., then yes, you are correct and we should be obsessed with the transmission rates. However, we don't have the same level of obsessions about other viruses present in humans (say, HSV-1 which unlike SARS-CoV-2 will live inside you until you die), and even other coronaviruses. Why? Because what matters most is how dangerous the virus is.

Fortunately, as of today, Omicron deaths are still at zero, and this fills me with moderate optimism. [0]

[0] https://www.cityam.com/anxiously-optimistic-south-africa-hol...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#250

Post by makomk »

londons_explore wrote: post #178
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfizer are on it (1). They estimate that it takes around 3 months. Which actually is really easy. And the others are following suit in similar timeframes (2) The hard part is deciding if this variant is the one that you're going to vaccinate against for a year or more. That takes data, which also takes time. 1) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/biontech-say... 2) https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc…

Each successful varient tends to be the ancestor of the next successful varient. That means if you develop a vaccine against any successful varient today, it will be a closer match than one made last year.

As I understand it, none of the existing major variants is an ancestor of Omicron - their closest common ancestor is quite a way back in the pandemic. Alpha and Delta weren't particularly closely related either.
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