Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

pfizer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 717 posts

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#231

Post by ccn0p »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #145
silent_cal wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make - it's just advertising, and you're all acting like it's an announcement from a public health authority.

TBH, this feels like a libertarian mindset of "Everyone will try to lie and cheat you!". Why should they lie? If their data had something different to their press release, lying and then getting caught (e.g. by a whistleblower) would damage their reputation. If their data shows it's bad, as responsible scientists why shouldn't they come out with the truth to protect the general public, and say "We'll continue work on…

Given the amount spent on lobbying [1], the Pharmaceutical industries track record of deceptive tactics [2], and the profits they have made and stand to make [3], it's not unreasonable to question the underlying motives, intentions, and biases of stuff like this.

[1] https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/industries/summ...

[2] https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/bigpharma

[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2021/04/06/meet-...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#232

Post by ethbr0 »

listless wrote: post #206
nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

That's the usual way it goes, as long as relatively high mortality virus is circulating in most of the world population.

Both infection- and vaccination-produced immunity decays over time. So everyone's choice is between keeping up their vaccination, or getting COVID repeatedly.

Which boils down to a question of whether you think being vaccinated or getting COVID is less risky.

Yes, there's some +/- on the decay rate, but in a relative weighting between risk (COVID without immune system primed) and needing more frequent boosters, why pick the COVID option and roll the dice on death or permanent organ damage?

Personal choice, I stay vaccinated, at least until (fingers crossed) the circulating strains of COVID evolve to be less dangerous.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#233

Post by mwint »

mentat wrote: post #205
mwint wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to be concerned. Another commenter brought up that the death rate per 100k is in the range of 1.1 (vaccinated) to ~5 (unvaccinated). Car accidents are >10/100k/yr.

How can you look at rate and range of mutation and make blithe comments on how many will die based on original covid rates?

It’s the best we have, and history shows that this stuff gets more infectious but less fatal.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#234

Post by detaro »

hef19898 wrote: post #224
detaro wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and death It's a balance. E.g. Germanys current trouble is a direct consequence of official policy that had a core of "we only care about hospitalizations now", but ignored "... and based on case numbers and other statistics, what will future hospitalizations look like if we don't change anything about our approach" - not helped by election campa…

As someone who has quite some experience in running operations based on data, numbers and metrics the German approach to COVID on that front alone really puzzled me from the beginning. First the incidence of 50 that they pulled out of their ass for contact tracing, which was ignored basically the next day. Then the fact that resources weren't really increased to improve contract traceability. Then the decision to use…

Yes, it's been really frustrating to see RKI predict this for weeks and just ... nothing happening. And then you still get headlines of "incidence fell slightly!" - from 392,4 to 392,2 (or sth like that), when testing labs are hitting capacity. We somehow lucked into a relatively good first wave and ever since then... so much unnecessary mess.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#235

Post by gandalfgreybeer »

phgn wrote: post #208

Isn't it a little suspicious that they claim more of their existing vaccine will protect that well against the new variant? I don't want to question the rigour of their scientific testing, but it might be good to have independent tests done. Of course in parallel to giving out more booster shots, which can only help (by an unknown amount).

If they said they people will need a new vaccine (which with the current mRNA tech will be relatively quick), I can imagine a similar comment pointing out suspicion that they want to sell something new.

Doesn’t make sense for them to market the current vaccine as still working if it’s not. Eventually more real world data will be coming in and it’s not something to easily hide from.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#236

Post by foo_barrio »

listless wrote: post #206
nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

It could have also been much worse though no? If those 3 days turned into 5 in a hospital with another long tail of lung issues would it still be worth it just not to get jabbed again?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#238

Post by nahqz »

mentat wrote: post #185
stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

"Remain obsessed" with transmission of a highly contagious virus that has shown significant ability to mutate at scale? That sure seems worth being obsessed about. When it mutates to spread past all current defenses then consistently kill because we failed to stop current spread it will indeed be "depressing".

There is absolutely no way to stop the spread forever. Just suggesting it is crazy. It is an option you have to forget about.

Stalling the spread is useless as well - we have already had two major mutations in less than two years.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#239

Post by hamburglar1 »

Is there a comprehensive white-paper anywhere with sample sizes and error bars? Otherwise this seems like an anecdote.

"The sera were collected from subjects 3 weeks after receiving the second dose or one month after receiving the third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine"

How do we know this study isn't just measuring the effect of that additional week? Also how many subjects was this sera pulled from? Are the subjects materially similar between the second and third dose groups?

Not exactly surprising the people selling the third dose conclude that it is needed. It's like when the waiter recommends the most expensive option.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#240

Post by iSnow »

hef19898 wrote: post #224
detaro wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and death It's a balance. E.g. Germanys current trouble is a direct consequence of official policy that had a core of "we only care about hospitalizations now", but ignored "... and based on case numbers and other statistics, what will future hospitalizations look like if we don't change anything about our approach" - not helped by election campa…

As someone who has quite some experience in running operations based on data, numbers and metrics the German approach to COVID on that front alone really puzzled me from the beginning. First the incidence of 50 that they pulled out of their ass for contact tracing, which was ignored basically the next day. Then the fact that resources weren't really increased to improve contract traceability. Then the decision to use…

German government staff is as un-digital as you can get. They have no idea how a small modeling group would have helped. Maybe the incoming government will do better, but I am not holding my breath.
Post reply on HN