Crypto lobbying is going ballistic • Hacker News Board

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#131

Post by pezzana » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

> The industry has gained political capital, too. In America, the congressional Blockchain Caucus counts 35 lawmakers as members. Cynthia Lummis, a senator from Wyoming, has received a big chunk of her 2026 campaign contributions from individuals linked to crypto firms. Last month she said she opposed Jerome Powell’s reappointment as head of the Federal Reserve because of the central bank’s “political approach to digital assets”. In October 2020 the Chamber of Digital Commerce’s political-action committee gave $50 worth of bitcoin to every member of Congress.

A constant refrain from those heavily invested in the financial system is that governments will "make Bitcoin illegal."

What's missing from this perspective is the possibility that as Bitcoin becomes more widely-recognized and doesn't vaporize in a puff of schadenfreude, it gains powerful supporters who can ensure that the clampdown never happens.

Ironically, there are those using Bitcoin who would like to see nothing less than a total ban of Bitcoin use in the US. They see this as final proof of the utility, value proposition, and when the ban fails to work, vindication.

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#132

Post by vanusa » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

numair wrote: post #102

Since this seems to be yet another HN comment thread filled with people who feel really smart for dismissing the potential of cryptographic digital currencies and the emerging liquid market for these digital assets, I'll just copy and paste my thoughts (which I might end up having to do often, since these sort of crypto-hate-fests are now popping up on HN at a rate of several per day): > Money moves fast in the crypt…

That’s what capital productivity is all about.

No, it's about investing money (and other resources) into endeavors that create actual goods and and services. The crypto world is (absent a few marginal use cases) almost entirely about derivatives and speculation - and of course money laundering and ransomware.

That is to to say: the very opposite of the intrinsic purpose (to the extent that it has one) of capital.

It’s unstable, risky, prone to failure — and it’s exactly what the global economy needs.

I have an even better catchphrase for you:

"It’s unstable, risky, prone to failure — in other words, pure nihilism, baby! And it’s exactly what the global economy needs."

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#133

Post by FDSGSG » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #52

PeterisP wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how limited the international payments are for your particular country. Bank payment from Spain to Poland is cheaper than cryptocurrency; bank payment from Nigeria to Peru is likely to be more expensive than cryptocurrency; and a bank payment from USA to Iran is effectively impossible while cryptocurrency can work.

"Likely"? Go find out what the actual numbers are, then make the argument. Wishful thinking gets you nowhere.

You're trolling, right? Everyone knows that there are generally no "actual numbers" available for this kind of transfers unless you're a BigCo or a private banking customer.

You'll send $1000 from your Nigerian bank to the Peruvian bank, $937.65 will arrive after a week+. Most likely nobody will be able to explain where the money went.

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#134

Post by tsimionescu » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

throwaway52355 wrote: post #98

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If climate change is finally taken seriously at some point, I hope they get clamped down on very hard. Unlike meth labs and "terrorists", a large mining farm can be traced by power usage. (Unless you're using solar, then go ahead and mine all you want.) Crypto fanatics are doing nothing of any practical value while greatly helping out with destroying our planet. We've been having rolling blackouts recently because of…

Miners are securing the only censorship-resistant, permissionless hard money we have. The only people who don't see any practical value in this either don't understand Bitcoin or hate freedom.

Or realize Bitcoin just can't be used as money, by design. It couldn't even handle the volume of transactions of a small town, because the miners and developers are not interested in that, and have chosen to keep block sizes small for their own interests.

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#135

Post by grlass » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #122

donatj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doing nothing of any practical value while greatly helping out with destroying our planet Serious question, where does this line of thinking end? Gaming rigs use upwards of a thousand watts, no practical value in gaming. Watching sitcoms on a television has no practical value. Phones capable of doing things other than making calls have no practical value, but we charge them all the time. Honestly I think providing…

Yeah, people should pay for their externalities. Currently, emissions are not priced and everybody who is using a lot of power is stealing quality of life from future generations and the global poor. BTC mining is just one of those operations that is resistant to a carbon tax since the price of BTC and therefore the mining rewards can just rise to compensate.

> BTC mining is just one of those operations that is resistant to a carbon tax since the price of BTC and therefore the mining rewards can just rise to compensate.

I don't follow your logic, could you elaborate? One could say that about other things subject to carbon tax. Like all goods and services, the price is set by how much people are will to pay for it.

"the price people are willing to pay for short-haul flights could just increase, and therefore the airline profits are unaffected." "the price people are willing to pay for aluminium could just increase, and therefore the smelters are unaffected."

They don't really make sense. Carbon taxing would change miner behaviour, because greener energy would be more attractive (by virtue of being cheaper, especially with carbon taxing and reduced fossil fuel subsidies).

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#136

Post by selfhoster11 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

uh_uh wrote: post #104

selfhoster11 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason why they aren't programmable, is because banks choose not to expose an API. In fact, even that's not completely true: Starling offers programmable bank accounts in the UK, and there is at least one programmable credit card provider in the US.

These are good steps yes. But still, you're at the mercy of fintechs. Also, for this stuff to be really useful, it needs to be standardised worldwide. E.g. Algerian traders should be able to trade with Japanese counterparties by interacting with the same smart contracts.

That I agree with. I just disagree with the assertion that legacy banking is not programmable, because there's nothing that inherently prevents it from working that way (other than bank policy).

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#137

Post by wrinkl3 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #53

donatj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doing nothing of any practical value while greatly helping out with destroying our planet Serious question, where does this line of thinking end? Gaming rigs use upwards of a thousand watts, no practical value in gaming. Watching sitcoms on a television has no practical value. Phones capable of doing things other than making calls have no practical value, but we charge them all the time. Honestly I think providing…

>>Gaming rigs use upwards of a thousand watts, no practical value in gaming. Humans have been playing games literally for thousands of years - there is a value in entertainment, especially with our busy lives of 21st century. You can of course overdo it, turn it into an addiction and it can destroy your life - like many other things. Crypto trading is as valuable as trading scraps of paper with a dollar sign scribble…

> Humans have been playing games literally for thousands of years - there is a value in entertainment, especially with our busy lives of 21st century.

Who gets to decide that? You see value in entertainment derived from a gaming rig, a person in Argentina sees value in mining a unit of make-believe currency which they can then sell on a speculative market. Should we form a global committee to decide on which types of computation have value, and should therefore be allowed to execute?

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#138

Post by vsareto » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

voz_ wrote: post #8

afc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when have you been waiting? What will you do in twenty years if it hasn't burst by then? And in forty? Continue to wait?

There's not a single problem it solves. A technical solution in search of a problem is a hilariously poor investment, esp when any distributed system will do the same work - but better. And all the "value" stuff on it like NFTs is just a giant ponzi scheme from any way you look at it.

>There's not a single problem it solves.

Start thinking of crypto as luxury goods, then a lot of what happens (has happened) makes sense. It started out with practical problems it was trying to solve, but clearly morphed into something else entirely.

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#139

Post by microtherion » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

andruby wrote: post #15

voz_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not a single problem it solves. A technical solution in search of a problem is a hilariously poor investment, esp when any distributed system will do the same work - but better. And all the "value" stuff on it like NFTs is just a giant ponzi scheme from any way you look at it.

I do think there is at least one problem that crypto currencies solve better than the status-quo: sending money internationally. It has less regulation than the official channels. Can have better privacy. Can be cheaper. Can be faster. Compared to Western Union, international wire transfers and the likes, sending money home for foreign workers (remittance), seems to be much better with Stellar, or other low-fee crypt…

> sending money internationally.

The volatility of cryptocurrency prices alone makes them a pretty bad fit for any transaction whose value needs to be agreed upon within reasonable limits.

For stuff like blackmail, where profit margins are high and payments are highly negotiable, the benefits of anonymity outweigh this drawback, but for most honest business, it matters to a recipient whether they get $100k or $75k.

> economics taking a dive

And your bet is that when society collapses, the power grid and the internet will keep operating to keep cryptocurrencies cranking on. Not sure that is a safe bet.

Re: Crypto lobbying is going ballistic

#140

Post by aceazzameen » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #37

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If climate change is finally taken seriously at some point, I hope they get clamped down on very hard. Unlike meth labs and "terrorists", a large mining farm can be traced by power usage. (Unless you're using solar, then go ahead and mine all you want.) Crypto fanatics are doing nothing of any practical value while greatly helping out with destroying our planet. We've been having rolling blackouts recently because of…

> doing nothing of any practical value while greatly helping out with destroying our planet Serious question, where does this line of thinking end? Gaming rigs use upwards of a thousand watts, no practical value in gaming. Watching sitcoms on a television has no practical value. Phones capable of doing things other than making calls have no practical value, but we charge them all the time. Honestly I think providing…

Crypto isn't entertainment, it's greed pure and simple. It's a pyramid scheme where once you join, you have to sell the idea to others to increase your value.

Crypto isn't the first of this kind, nor will it be the last. But it does use obscene amounts of energy to make the scam work. And the energy requirements become greater year after year. It is not sustainable in our civilization.