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20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

businessinsider.com

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Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#61

Post by Frost1x »

q1w2 wrote: post #34
romwell wrote: post #10

Ahh, the good old trickle-down, aka "piss in my eyes and tell me it's raining" (which is the only way trickle-down actually works). It was pure mythology from the start; there's never been any basis for it to begin with. It's a pity we even have to debunk it like that. Go figure, give a million hungry people $20 each, and see $20M return to the economy the next day as they spend it on food. Give a billionaire $20M, s…

I haven't seen a politician advocate for trickle down since the early 1980s. Why is this strawman still the target for low-effort articles?

If it's a strawman, why do we keep participating in what it represents? Politicians may not be directly advocating it under its derogatory name but they tow the cultural line to maintain the status quo that support it. Many continue to push for low corporate taxes and low taxes (or maintaining loopholes) on the vast wealth. We have this deeply embedded idea of supporting corporations which are mostly hierarchical in nature in terms of power and pay. We frequently prioritize business needs/wants above people (i.e. the general population) usually implicitly under the assumption that by helping businesses, we help the general citizen, all under the ideas of trickle down economics. Many still participate in corporate worship. During the Trump administration we saw a slew of such policies, including dropping the corporate tax rate.

The reason you don't continue to hear about trickle down economics is because it's a derogatory framing of the economic mindset that supports a structure we largely subscribe to. It's deeply embedded in our economy and culture. Maintainers don't need to argue much for it because it's the status quo and has momentum. What you should see are more politicians fighting to reverse the effects that push trickle down economics had/have on the country and there are few who do. Sanders, Warren, and Cortez are the most famous opposition pushing to promote general workers rights and bottom up economies, I'd argue Sanders being the leader here. Many think he's crazy for his ideals which is a testament to how deep seated trickle down economics is in this country.

Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#62

Post by pepperonipizza »

anothernewdude wrote: post #53

Robespierre did nothing wrong.

What the hell is this type of comment?! This is the same stupid phrase neo-nazi use to joke about the Holocaust.

Thousands have been killed by the terror, even some of his allies turned against him because how bloody it was.

Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#63

Post by p_l »

Applejinx wrote: post #40
xwolfi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a financial instrument ? Usually a debt (a stock, a bond) which makes others live. Even to buy a house you need to give money to someone else who uses it for their own retirement or whatbot. If the millionaire receives gold and bury it in his garden, sure, but if he puts it in a bank or an instrument, chances are you're paid by it. And sure, giving money to non value added non productive endeavour like you pro…

The cleverest people around have gone into finance to invent instruments that are ever more abstract, specifically to avoid tying finance to inconvenient, fallible things like… business. It all has to perform way better than anything tangible could hope to do, and this starves out the type of investing to which you refer. Newest example: crypto. Like burying capital in pure abstractions, except they pollute (which go…

The very point of capitalism is to separate as much the act of making money from anything that isn't money itself.

Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#65

Post by naruvimama »

Speaking from a historical perspective.

The East India company/ies pretty much won much of the world for Britain & Europe. Europe was neither wealthy nor technologically more advanced than India. But the Church with its christianising mission and doctrine of christian discovery allowed the pooling of resources. Concentration of wealth is important and the wealth did trickle down to other countries of Europe.

A modern take within India is of Reliance which has made cheap telecom services accessible for much of the population. Or the TATAs who have created a local automobile ecosystem competitive based on vertical integration. Trickle down does happen in the long run as long as corruption is limited. Concentration or pooling of wealth is important especially for developing countries.

Personally I do not care for inequality, and care more for dignity and wellbeing. The metric that matters most especially with developing countries is if their productivity has increased and if they have moved from low skilled to medium to high skilled job.

Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#66

Post by esarbe »

codegrappler wrote: post #2

I guess I’m not surprised that a bunch of folks who have made a career out of advising politicians on income inequality….discovered income inequality in their study. The two questions in my mind are: 1. Should we trust the government to spend the money more wisely than the folks who earned it? Or said another way, how do you combat the almost inevitable corruption you see with large government spending? 2. What will…

Sure sounds like you swallowed the neo-liberal arguments bait, hook and sinker. Let me guess; you probably find 'Atlas Shrugged' to be a profound work of reason?

> 1. Should we trust the government to spend the money more wisely than the folks who earned it?

Ah, the neo-liberal myth of the maker, the builder, the job creator. Let me tell you this; our economy/ies are built on the back of low-wage workers that are always, always, always getting only a share of their value addition. A fraction. So, unfortunately, the people "earning" the money already don't get it. So we could at least increase the taxes on the moochers that keep them subservient and make sure that the actual makers and builders don't get bankrupted just because of an unexpected illness.

> 2. What will incentivize people to work at insane rates if the vast majority of their income and wealth is taxed?

I guess that would be hunger and the need to pay for a roof over the head. Because that's what it is like for the vast, suffocatingly overwhelming majority of people. They work at insane rates because they are paid a starving wage and don't have to luxury. Far too many are forced to work insane hours, far too many are even doing multiple jobs at the same time because pay is so bad.

> long hours and sacrifices

Haha, that was a good one.

I'm terribly sorry, but the way you write makes it sound as if you would learn a lot from working a few months in a low-wage environment while having to pay your living expenses exclusively from that low-income wage. Without the option of going back home to your parents and cry. It might give you some perspective!

That's what did it for me at least.

Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#67

Post by syshum »

Spooky23 wrote: post #7
codegrappler wrote: post #2

I guess I’m not surprised that a bunch of folks who have made a career out of advising politicians on income inequality….discovered income inequality in their study. The two questions in my mind are: 1. Should we trust the government to spend the money more wisely than the folks who earned it? Or said another way, how do you combat the almost inevitable corruption you see with large government spending? 2. What will…

I’m sure someone would shed a tear for you. Think of how productive thousands of people would be if they weren’t staring down at death or disability daily because some ambitious motherfucker decided to make a cheap commodity like insulin a monopolized product, essential for life at a usurious price.

I find this example very ironic, given that the reason an " ambitious motherfucker " can take a cheap commodity like insulin and make it a monopolized product is directly a result of government regulations.

The very same government you want to take everyone money and believe will spend it wisely

Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#69

Post by Hnrobert42 »

chii wrote: post #39
romwell wrote: post #10

Ahh, the good old trickle-down, aka "piss in my eyes and tell me it's raining" (which is the only way trickle-down actually works). It was pure mythology from the start; there's never been any basis for it to begin with. It's a pity we even have to debunk it like that. Go figure, give a million hungry people $20 each, and see $20M return to the economy the next day as they spend it on food. Give a billionaire $20M, s…

> give a million hungry people $20 each, and see $20M return to the economy the next day as they spend it on food. if there wasn't enough food in the first place, then the $20m just got inflated. This 20m will not go towards investment in higher food productivity when given to individuals like that. Give this 20m to "the rich", they will invest it in food creation machinery. At least there would be more food produced…

No. That is exactly the kind of argument that was debunked. The rich, when given money, do not take the money and create for the poor.

In everything I’ve read about direct giving, inflation is so insignificant, it isn’t even concern that’s addressed.

Re: 20 year study of global wealth demolishes the myth of ‘trickle-down’

#70

Post by jpadkins »

Spooky23 wrote: post #7
codegrappler wrote: post #2

I guess I’m not surprised that a bunch of folks who have made a career out of advising politicians on income inequality….discovered income inequality in their study. The two questions in my mind are: 1. Should we trust the government to spend the money more wisely than the folks who earned it? Or said another way, how do you combat the almost inevitable corruption you see with large government spending? 2. What will…

I’m sure someone would shed a tear for you. Think of how productive thousands of people would be if they weren’t staring down at death or disability daily because some ambitious motherfucker decided to make a cheap commodity like insulin a monopolized product, essential for life at a usurious price.

What do you think about the Biden Admin rescinding the insulin pricing rules?

https://www.policymed.com/2021/10/biden-administration-resci...

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