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The Patent Pledge

paulgraham.com

31–40 of 204 posts

Re: The Patent Pledge

#31
It's not immediately clear to me whether this solves any part of the current problem. But on reflection, I believe I understand the motivation here.

Big companies that use patents as a revenue stream (MSFT, IBM, etc.) typically bide their time and bring a patent lawsuit once a new company is established and there is blood to drain. It's the threat of such a lawsuit in the future that can negatively impact investment in a startup, as the right collection of patents could conceivably capture much of the economic surplus of a new venture. Alternatively, a big company might use the threat of a patent lawsuit, now or in the future, to push a young company to agree to an early acquisition.

The pledge doesn't seem to have much impact on these scenarios, even if a big company were to follow it rigorously.

Most of us, I believe, would prefer to see companies make a stronger commitment: "No first use of software patents" [period]. Google hasn't made this pledge, but to the best of my knowledge, they've acted in this way so far. It does seem in line with "don't be evil."

That said, I think I see what PG is going for here. He wants companies to make a pledge that, at a minimum, allows a new product or service to be tested on the market. That way, if it gathers traction, it will attract investment despite the threat of patents, and the new company will be able to mount a reasonable defense.

Perhaps more importantly, though, by allowing the product to succeed first, even in a modest way, it makes the offensive use of patents worse PR for the big company. Killing a successful product with patents is no longer an abstract issue. It takes away from customers and the market something very real.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#32
Patent trolling big companies is just as unethical as trolling small ones.

PG: Red Hat, a multibillion dollar business, already has a working patent pledge - they won't use patents except defensively against people who attack them first. Copy that and use it.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#33
post #21

I disagree that this will help, because the established companies the pledge would apply to are a secondary problem and mostly seem to fight each other (has Microsoft asserted patents against a startup? has IBM? has AT&T? when they asserted patents it was against multi-million dollar businesses!). The primary problem is patent trolls (see e.g. lodsys / intellectual ventures) for whom this pledge could be considered s…

We can't get patent reform through Congress, so let's try to get a new tax through Congress? DOA.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#34
My personal pledge is that as a programmer I refuse to work for any company that goes on the attack with software patents, this obviously includes Apple and Microsoft. I also refuse to participate if asked by my company to help create a patent, I am willing to be fired over this.

Since good programmers are a scarce resource if enough of us took this pledge it could really start having an effect.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#35
post #4

The content of the pledge seems to indicate that there are a lot of (or at least some) cases where large companies are suing very small companies (< 25 people) over patent infringement. Is this the case? I've only heard about the patent litigation between the tech giants, and not anything about small firms getting sued by larger ones. Are there any recent/high profile examples of this that I missed? Or is it just som…

The recent This American Life ep "When Patents Attack" ( http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/w... ) started with a segment on a startup called Fototime, which was very small (certainly under 25 people) and had to settle a patent suit at great expense. (As part of the settlement agreement, they aren't allowed to say how much; only that it was just short of what would have caused them to file for…

Fototime was threatened by a NPE (aka troll); I can't imagine this pledge could have helped them.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#37
I think this is a great idea and that it will prevent pledging companies from engaging in patent abuse, but I wonder how many large companies will bother to sign up for it. I imagine that if Apple/Google/MS all just take a pass that they won't catch much flak for doing so.

I wonder though if we could make the whole thing more effective by also adding an underlying threat to the pledge:

That any company, patent pledging or not, who violates the <25 rule will have their talent actively recruited away by those companies that have pledged.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#38

> Please join them! Paul, there is a major oversight here. The site http://thepatentpledge.org/ doesn't even have a contact form. Also, you may want to make the links nofollow.

Yeah I noticed the same thing. Should the companies email pg directly?

Re: The Patent Pledge

#39

I suppose it would be a good start, but the self-interest in this proposal stinks a bit. What's the distribution of employee numbers in companies in which Y Combinator has a stake?

Actually most of the value of our portfolio consists of companies with over 25 employees.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#40
post #11

I have a PG question for PG: what problem does this solve? I see 2 problems currently. 1. Microsoft suing Android makers, and other similar examples, where large companies burn billions of dollars of our economy over something pointless. 2. Patent trolls like Intellectual Ventures and their shell companies suing startups. How does this solve either of these problems? Who really needs this?

There was a case of a startup shoe sales site with a really elegant interface for selecting the exact type of shoe you wanted. Basically, it allowed you to see many very similar styles on one page to be able to compare similar offerings from different labels. I wish I could remember the name, but a recently VC-funded startup used a patent to go after the first startup, and they ended up closing shop.
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