Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#111

Post by beachy » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #77

beachy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burmese regime is one of world's most unruly, despotic, prolific, and it can be wiped out clean by US military with ease, without involving any of its allies Maybe you missed the memo, but there is plenty of precedent for US getting its ass handed to it trying to "clean up" despotic states in SE Asia. And as far as doing it without allies, to quote Robert McNamara: > What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of om…

I am glad you unearthed NcNamara here. US lost in Vietnam because people like him were idiots. US military was not attacking, nor defending, but doing god knows what for entirety of the Vietnam campaign because cool kids like McNamara, Nixon, and Kisinger were coming up with their "innovative theories," and trying "redefining the nature of warfare, and politics." For the entirety of Vietnam war, US military had the f…

I guess you're not talking about some well-executed surgical strike to take out the leadership? Because Ho Chi Minh, Giap and other NV leaders were moving around the country with impunity throughout the war, and the US never came close to working out where they were or taking them out, so poor was their intelligence.

So yeah, the US could have won by going nuclear, as Nixon briefly considered at Khe Sanh. But that wouldn't have turned the war, he would have had to escalate to nuking Hanoi. And destroying an entire population to effect regime change is not really "winning" in any sense of the word.

There was nothing simple about winning in Vietnam, and the US was never in any position to crush the North.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#112

Post by y-c-o-m-b » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

_blz2 wrote: post #74

Will someone do the same against Twitter for the Arab springs which lead to the rise of ISIS?

Seems kind of a wild leap to blame the rise of ISIS on Twitter.

ISIS came from the events in Iraq and is an offshoot of "Al Qaeda in Iraq". It even stands for "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant". They existed long before the Arab Spring.

The Arab Spring started in 2010 and ISIS didn't enter Syria (which I think is the connection you're making?) until well after that.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#113

Post by throwawaycities » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #89

throwawaycities wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of companies have been sued and paid out claims for their use of forced Jewish labor and other wrongs during WW2.

And yet plenty of American corporations are using slave labor today. Wonder where those lawsuits are, or has Congress shielded them from consequences.

American companies are sued and pay claims every single day for violations of employment labor standards.

Just as an example you can find lawsuits against Uber for misclassifying its workers as independent contractors instead of employees.

Not sure what of facts you have that shows American companies using slaves and being immune from civil or criminal lawsuits.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#114

Post by DoItToMe81 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

viro wrote: post #70

So I'm a little confused. How is Facebook responsible for some thing a government did? Or is this just because they can't do anything to the government without invading.

Not to mention that Myanmar has had serious problems with repression of religious and ethnic minorities for decades. I find it very difficult to believe Facebook is the spark that ignited an already sectarian government in a country with a long history of ethnic persecution.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#115

Post by baybal2 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #110

baybal2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During both of your options, how do you think China reacts to a massive US military invasion literally on its border? Very nasty, it will scare them beyond all heavens. And this is why you do it. You make enemies afraid of you, so they don't attack you, and your allies. > The us has a logistical nightmare where it has to move troops and resources halfway across the world. 1. US has just got a nuclear ally in Asia.…

That's how you gift PRC a firm client state with naval base and infra that circumvents Malacca and mitigates Andaman & Nicobar. US can only maximize logistics with forward staging, which is still tiny compared to Myanmar / PRC land routes, who can support Tatmadaw indefinitely, with little green men if need be. Regardless, unlikely anyone in the region will allow it, least of all India, whose already dealing with bor…

> Also SKorea, Japan, Singapore - basically anyone that's remotely US friendly

If that treacherous trio wasn't rooting for China, and not spending billions on their factories in China, the talk would be entirely different.

It's in US best interest to keep its allies in line. The worst thing they can do is really to die on US, by failing to resist China.

And I think, this is even more important now that getting Modi/India on board.

I bet, in a decade or so, China will be back into a state of North Korea, except with skyscrapers, if the US will do so.

US can't keep extending the security guarantee to Korea, Japan, and Taiwan with them putting money into China. It's a backstabbing.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#116

Post by dekhn » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #71

wonderwonder wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and then how long do we leave troops there for? another 20 years and then we leave and everything goes back to the way it was? Conceptually I am all for the overthrow of despots and tyrants but the reality is we cannot keep sending the youth of America to various spots around the world to fight and die. America has a myriad of issues at home including spiraling inflation and we can ill afford to print more US d…

> Sure, and then how long do we leave troops there for? another 20 years and then we leave and everything goes back to the way it was? 1 option. Just destroy fixed assets, and most armour. US can do it in a few months of logistical preparations, and 1 week high intensity campaign. 2 option. Yes, but now build proper military hardpoint bases, and a proper government

seems like we've tried this a number of times since WWII and haven't really managed to ever pull it off in the long run.

Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#117

Post by baybal2 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #94

baybal2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During both of your options, how do you think China reacts to a massive US military invasion literally on its border? Very nasty, it will scare them beyond all heavens. And this is why you do it. You make enemies afraid of you, so they don't attack you, and your allies. > The us has a logistical nightmare where it has to move troops and resources halfway across the world. 1. US has just got a nuclear ally in Asia.…

Sorry friend, I was willing to engage with you in good natured debate but if you think that China's response will be cowering in fear then you are very much not versed in what's going on in the world, especially regarding China's capabilities and government. China is a military power very close to the US in capability. China commands and enforces absolute loyalty from its citizens, and is more than happy to turn to g…

> China is a military power very close to the US in capability.

False, Chinese military is numerically inferior to America, with nearly 4-fold disadvantage in combat aircraft, and already surrounded by US allies, and military assets.

Ultimately, China don't have enough nuclear weapons to destroy enough US military bases to prevent effective retaliation.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#118

Post by dekhn » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #94

baybal2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During both of your options, how do you think China reacts to a massive US military invasion literally on its border? Very nasty, it will scare them beyond all heavens. And this is why you do it. You make enemies afraid of you, so they don't attack you, and your allies. > The us has a logistical nightmare where it has to move troops and resources halfway across the world. 1. US has just got a nuclear ally in Asia.…

Sorry friend, I was willing to engage with you in good natured debate but if you think that China's response will be cowering in fear then you are very much not versed in what's going on in the world, especially regarding China's capabilities and government. China is a military power very close to the US in capability. China commands and enforces absolute loyalty from its citizens, and is more than happy to turn to g…

This seems to completely ignore the US's significant naval advantage and nuclear superiority, as well as a large number of well-armed allies around the world, and its satellite infrastructure

Also I think if US/China war happened, each country would break the other's civilian infrastructure (we know for sure that both countries actively probe the other's defences) badly enough that there would be serious threat to the health of billions of people, topple governments, and generally be harmful to a functioning economy.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#119

Post by kbenson » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #105

kbenson wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that presume guilt a bit? The whole point of a trial is to see if there is guilt, and if so maybe which parties are guilty will be shown (in the case of a company).

This is a civil trial. If it goes forward then the court will determine liability, not guilt.

Yes, but isn't the presumption that you're only liable if you are in some way guilty (culpable) of what's being alleged?

In any case, just because someone's levied some charges doesn't mean we should necessarily assume they are accurate. I'm not s fan of Facebook by any means, but that doesn't mean I support trial by public opinion before there's even a chance for defense.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#120

Post by wonderwonder » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #117

wonderwonder wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry friend, I was willing to engage with you in good natured debate but if you think that China's response will be cowering in fear then you are very much not versed in what's going on in the world, especially regarding China's capabilities and government. China is a military power very close to the US in capability. China commands and enforces absolute loyalty from its citizens, and is more than happy to turn to g…

> China is a military power very close to the US in capability. False, Chinese military is numerically inferior to America, with nearly 4-fold disadvantage in combat aircraft, and already surrounded by US allies, and military assets. Ultimately, China don't have enough nuclear weapons to destroy enough US military bases to prevent effective retaliation.

Again, you are not paying attention to logistics. America has to get its military aircraft to China and then once there China has an overwhelming array of surface to air missiles it can deploy from its own territory. The fact that you had to say "China don't have enough nuclear weapons to destroy enough US military bases to prevent effective retaliation" proves the reason the US will not invade Myanmar. We are not going to get into a nuclear conflict over the conditions in another country, especially a conflict where we are seen as the aggressor. China has an estimated 300+ nuclear warheads; potentially more, and missiles that are more than capable of delivering them anywhere in the US mainland. My point is that China will not cower in fear and do nothing if the US invades Myanmar, the fact that you think they will is mind boggling.