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Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

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Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#411

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

bko wrote: post #85
rvnx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because once you let the first person know on their 1:1 meeting there will be miscommunication / rumours, and everybody is going to be somewhat aware. However some people are going to have 1st party information, and others have heard of the rumours, and those people will feel offended to not have been made aware like everyone else.

This is how it happens normally in non-covid world. There is no reason you should fire everyone publicly by the CEO, likely someone the employee never interacts with. The person also needs to know the next steps, for instance if they'll get paid of for vacation days, how to sign up for Cobra (if in the US), etc. You can cut off access prior to notice. Ideally they would all be done within a short period. I've been ar…

> This is how it happens normally in non-covid world

Not for me. I have been a part of two layoffs - the first one in 2010 - and witnessed multiple more since then. It's always been an "all hands" conference by the CEO to let everyone know then afterwards followed by a 1:1 to tell you about severance options (if any), Cobra, etc. Not the other way around.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#412

Post by fuzzfactor »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #122

>‘You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.” Sounds like there's a problem at the top too.

There's no way employees could be more embarassing than this kind of non-leader being in a leadership position.

For a CEO something's got to be wrong, he doesn't seem like the kind of operator who has any business trying to be responsible for any employees whatsoever, and should be kept far from any decision-making activity.

Actual businessmen have known better for centuries.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#413

Post by missedthecue »

beaconstudios wrote: post #407
missedthecue wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time theft by employees well over an order of magnitude greater than this. https://www.epaysystems.com/time-theft-facts-and-stats/

Much of "time theft" is covered by people struggling to focus continuously for 8 hours at a time 5 days a week. That's not theft, that's unrealistic expectations.

This article talks about things like timesheet fudging and practices like 'buddy punching', not getting distracted by a news article here or there, or getting a non-work phone call between the hours of 9 am and 5 pm

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#414

Post by beaconstudios »

missedthecue wrote: post #413
beaconstudios wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of "time theft" is covered by people struggling to focus continuously for 8 hours at a time 5 days a week. That's not theft, that's unrealistic expectations.

This article talks about things like timesheet fudging and practices like 'buddy punching', not getting distracted by a news article here or there, or getting a non-work phone call between the hours of 9 am and 5 pm

Given that companies typically want to maximally exploit their employees while paying the minimum wage they can, I don't really care about employees doing a little exploiting in the other direction.

Of course it depends on the company - I think people tend to do this kind of thing when their employer is hostile or exploitative. People typically respond well and work hard when they're treated fairly.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#415

Post by manuelabeledo »

missedthecue wrote: post #406
manuelabeledo wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wage theft" in these terms is a thing only in the US. In legal terms, and in most of the developed world, "wage theft" is the unlawful denial of wages from employers to employees.

It's usually called time theft when employees are on the clock but doing things they shouldn't be doing.

Messing around isn't illegal.

Calling it "theft" is a way to try to tie it to something widely considered illegal, which is unfortunate.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#416

Post by AlwaysRock »

sky_rw wrote: post #56
vmception wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you prefer it was done?

Most people don't have suggestions, they just have complaints. If you've never been in the position as a business leader where you are forced to lay off employees then it can seem capricious.

I've had to lay people off. It sucks. I didnt do it over zoom or make anonymous accounts and blame them for it online.

Again. Gross.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#417

Post by missedthecue »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #415
missedthecue wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually called time theft when employees are on the clock but doing things they shouldn't be doing.

Messing around isn't illegal. Calling it "theft" is a way to try to tie it to something widely considered illegal, which is unfortunate.

I'm not talking about messing around. Humans aren't machines.

Fudging timesheets and practices called "buddy punching" are what I'm talking about.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#418

Post by lifeisstillgood »

yummybear wrote: post #249
dilap wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering that too. I think ideally you would have a 1-1 video chat with someone. But at such a big, 900 employee, layoff, maybe that wasn't easy to do. I think the CEOs affect on the call made it worse. It was very strange to hear him say stuff like "last time I had to do this, I cried. I hope to be stronger this time." It felt like his focus when laying off 900 people was too much on how it made him personall…

If you can hire 900 people with personal interviews, you can lay them off with one too.

That is probably the simplest, best, clearest answer to this whole mess I have heard. Nicely put.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#419

Post by namdnay »

golemotron wrote: post #150
wedowhatwedo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each person being laid off deserves a private meeting with their manager where they are told this. The fact that they hired 900 people they now no longer need is a failing of the CEO by itself. If they work remotely, it can be a zoom meeting. Being told in a meeting with 900 people by someone you don't know is rude and tells me that anyone in leadership in this company are people I would not like to work for. The fac…

Isn't that 'employee privilege'? People who are in business for themselves often lose clients without notice. Employees easily forget how much they are shielded from the market.

Well… yes? Employees trade lower revenue for greater stability

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#420

Post by BrandonM »

benreesman wrote: post #298
0des wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a few qualms with this comment: 1. For a person who just lost their job, you can already search for such an opportunity yourself quite trivially by getting a resume, editing it locally with notepad, and then using email to send it. From Windows or Mac, this resume could be accessed through built-in software. 2. It doesn't actually replace a new job prospect. Most people I know choose to promote their startups…

I’m confused by this comment. Are you arguing that the GP is engaged in unethical behavior, engaged in bad business, being insensitive, cluttering the thread with a low-value contribution, or some door #N that I’m failing to see?

The poster seems to be trying to draw a parallel between his comment and an infamous post that I made nearly 15 years ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224), or maybe just to make me feel bad. I personally don’t think the tones of the two posts are comparable at all. My post has been quoted out of context for the last decade or so, though, so it’s not surprising to me. (Ask yourself, what did “app” mean in my comment?)

Several people seem to expect that I would be embarrassed by my comment or regret making it, but it honestly doesn’t bother me at all. I, HN, and even the world have changed a lot in 15 years.

Anyway, I’m pretty satisfied with where life has taken me. I’m certainly not going to sweat someone combing through my post history in a vague attempt to dunk on me after pointing out that they’re being a bit of a shithead.

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