Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call • Hacker News Board

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#261

Post by tmp_anon_22 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #117

ceva wrote: post #21

wow that is big lay off, but how they decided what 900 employees to lay off wtf? could they give them some opportunity to grow within the company for some different role? I mean on the other side this is really shit news, but giving that 3 months of benefits and paycheck is kind of Ok i guess in this situation so people can start looking for another job.

From the article: >>Garg told Fortune that a month earlier, the company began to review employee productivity data, including missed telephone call rates, number of inbound and outbound calls, employees showing up late to meetings with a customer, and other metrics. >>“You guys know that at least 250 of the people terminated were working an average of 2 hours a day while clocking 8 hours+ a day in the payroll system?…

> So the people at better.com said they looked at the data they had on employee performance.

Well worded. They looked at the data they had, whatever the heck that was. It sounds like a large part of this was in the sales and success org, given the reference to customer interactions and inbound/outbound monitoring.

The charged language "stealing" seems really defensive to me. Even if they were stealing do you really want to publish how bad your managers were dealing with it proactively?

From an economics perspective you can justify mass lay offs and you can say that there is no perfect way to do it, but there are a LOT of red flags for a CEO who already has a history of red flags. Maybe they shouldn't be in charge?

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#262

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

beerandt wrote: post #205

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he's got some breakdown on how dolphin intelligence impacts those stats given his emphasis on them being dumb dolphins

I imagine it as a callback to some company wide training or team-building exercise or corporate culture story where the keynote/"message from our fearless leader" was some sort of dolphin parable. But maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

Given that he threatened to staple his business partner to the wall and burn him alive, you are probably giving him too much credit.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bettercom-ceo-vishal-garg-thre...

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#263

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #154

tyingq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what seems right to me. It's not the virtual nature, it's the lazy mass group layoff that's objectionable and disrespectful. If you're being laid off, you probably have a lot of questions. A 1:1 meeting would allow for that.

The problem is that 900 people is a lot of people. Imagine all managers scheduling meetings with their reports to tell them, then the managers themselves are probably being let go, in the meantime it would create A LOT of stress not knowing whether you will be called in for a meeting or not, just sitting there seeing people being let go around you 1 by 1. The whole process would take a week just to have a proper meet…

[deleted]

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#264

Post by johndubchak » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #148

post-it wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Zoom call part isn't really the issue, although individual Zoom meetings would have been better. > In another email obtained by Forbes last year, Garg wrote: > > ‘You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”

The funny thing is that sharks are more likely to be eaten by dolphins (especially orcas) than vice versa. And sharks also get caught in nets. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/killer-wh... I guess Garg is just as weak on marine biology as he is on leadership and business ethics.

You are more kind than I would be.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#265

Post by zitterbewegung » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #20

I know this sounds horrible but in the days of covid and working from home, what are companies supposed to do if they have to lay off large amounts of people? Make them all risk their health to come to an in-person event, only to be fired? Drive to every employee's house to fire them in person? It obviously sucks but I don't see how, in 2021, this is any different from the kind of thing that would happen all the time…

No , use email and don’t use corporate speak.

Going off at a tangent better.com issues mortgages and just got a $750MM cash infusion and they are still looking for jobs to fill. Make what conclusions that you can possibly have.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#266

Post by usrusr » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

buitreVirtual wrote: post #166

baby wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. Why make the HR team go through 900 individual calls? At the same time this will leak and other employees will learn that they might get fired before they get their own call. Recipe for disaster. Just rip off the band aid.

Each manager would have to make that call to their laid-off reports, or the next manager in line if the manager is being laid off too. Maybe after that it would be ok for HR to have larger meetings with those affected to sort out the details.

“or the next manager in line if the manager is being laid off too“

What if the whole chains are axed? Recursive "or the next manager" could easily lead to exactly what happened: a CEO lucky to have a pandemic voiding all expectations to do something like that in person.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#267

Post by DnDGrognard » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #200

gambiting wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that 900 people is a lot of people. Imagine all managers scheduling meetings with their reports to tell them, then the managers themselves are probably being let go, in the meantime it would create A LOT of stress not knowing whether you will be called in for a meeting or not, just sitting there seeing people being let go around you 1 by 1. The whole process would take a week just to have a proper meet…

Companies do massive layoffs all the time without large meetings to tell everyone at the meeting they are fired. It isn't that hard.

For large US companies there are rules (Warn Act) about how you make people redundant

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#268

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

BrandonM wrote: post #236

0des wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never let a tragedy go to waste > The lack of empathy shown in this situation is intense You're right! ;)

One of you is trying to help these people find their next job.

[deleted]

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#269

Post by manuelabeledo » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

I find disgraceful that this guy is putting the blame on his employees.

It is clear that:

1. There is no way competent managers would let 15% of the workforce slip so hard, that they are fired for "performance reasons", and

2. If these performance measurements were valid, most of the now fired employees would have been fired long time ago.

Any normal company has quarterly performance reviews, and management has to follow on those. If he only just found out that 15% of his employees were "lazy" or were "stealing wages" (not a thing), but waited until the end of the year, he and his team were being negligent.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#270

Post by DoneWithAllThat » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

post-it wrote: post #54

DangerousPie wrote: post #20

I know this sounds horrible but in the days of covid and working from home, what are companies supposed to do if they have to lay off large amounts of people? Make them all risk their health to come to an in-person event, only to be fired? Drive to every employee's house to fire them in person? It obviously sucks but I don't see how, in 2021, this is any different from the kind of thing that would happen all the time…

The Zoom call part isn't really the issue, although individual Zoom meetings would have been better. > In another email obtained by Forbes last year, Garg wrote: > > ‘You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”

Now this is just moving the goalposts. Can someone please help me understand what I’m supposed to be outraged about? It seems to be a confetti of grievances meant to evoke an emotional reaction.