OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment • Hacker News Board

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#101

Post by lzm » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:13 PM UTC

straphka wrote: post #62

lzm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having the same experience. I got a 2011 Air (my first Mac) and Lion seems pretty decent. Scrolling feels natural, and everything seems to work as it should. My only complaints are the keyboard (as a programmer I really miss home/end/page up/page down), and that I can't reopen closed tabs in Safari.

Reopen closed tabs is, afaik, Command-z

That only works immediately after I close the tab. If I close one tab, close another tab, navigate to some other site, browse it for a while, and then decide to reopen that two closed tabs, then I can't do that.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#102

Post by ootachi » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:14 PM UTC

KirinDave wrote: post #69

He forgot to mention how completely and randomly broken Launchctl is under Lion. Unless you are root, about half the time when you invoke launchctl load, you get a crash with debug output. And any vagrant user can tell you how frustratingly off-kilter NFS has become. He also forgot to mention that a very large number of people were getting kernel panics from using flash in a browser . How that regression got out the…

Doesn't surprise me. ptrace() on the first version or two of iOS would panic the kernel with TODO messages.

Generally, XNU calls panic() at the slightest sign of trouble, while Linux tends toward more fault resilience (through the oops system, etc).

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#103

Post by tptacek » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:14 PM UTC

KirinDave wrote: post #64

tptacek wrote: post #57

First, I think that to be fair, if you're going to say someone is having a "Vista Moment", they have to have bet a significant chunk of the company on the OS. When iOS 7 blows up, talk about Apple's "Vista Moment". Second, I think there's an implication here that prior releases of OS X have been great. They have not been great. Snow Leopard was solid, because that was its only goal. Much of what Apple has attempted w…

This is an interesting perspective. Come to think of it, Leopard did frustrate me a lot. I think I just got really fat and happy on Snow Leopard, and now that rug has been ripped away from me.

By the time Snow Leopard becomes a real liability, geeks will have beaten Lion into submission. It's like a month? out from Lion's release. Nobody who likes Snowpard has any business running Lion right now.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#104

Post by tptacek » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:16 PM UTC

watmough wrote: post #89

lallysingh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, let's remember that lion's a $30 upgrade, which makes things sting quite a bit less.

I tried it for a bit, then happily re-imaged back to Snow Leopard. There's just too much goofy laptop oriented crap that I don't want. I was laughing out loud reading that article. And grimacing, as someone who works late in a quiet house, at the loss of fine volume adjustment from the keyboard. I will have to test software on lion, but I'll just dedicate a partition and drop into it when necessary. The worst thing f…

Lion is not for you.

Snowpard will continue to work without being a liability for probably the next 12 months, at least.

Giving up on Lion isn't a moral failing. Give the pioneers some time to absorb the arrows. By next March, I'm betting that (suitably tuned) Lion won't be anywhere nearly as annoying as it is today.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#105

Post by wmf » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:17 PM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #72

tptacek wrote: post #57

First, I think that to be fair, if you're going to say someone is having a "Vista Moment", they have to have bet a significant chunk of the company on the OS. When iOS 7 blows up, talk about Apple's "Vista Moment". Second, I think there's an implication here that prior releases of OS X have been great. They have not been great. Snow Leopard was solid, because that was its only goal. Much of what Apple has attempted w…

Additionally, let's remember that lion's a $30 upgrade, which makes things sting quite a bit less.

If Lion is actually worse than Snow Leopard (obviously this is debatable), any price is an insult.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#106

Post by tptacek » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:19 PM UTC

rrrazdan wrote: post #91

lallysingh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, let's remember that lion's a $30 upgrade, which makes things sting quite a bit less.

I fail to see why I should lower my expectations from my Operating System because of the price.

Are you sure you're not just nerding out on the notion that you (need to be running/are entitled to love) the latest version of an operating system? People are going to take products in directions you don't love. Try falling in love with a car series sometime. :)

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#107

Post by oflannabhra » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:23 PM UTC

As someone who has a three year old MacBook Pro that doesn't support multiple finger gestures besides scroll and right-click, I will happily be running Snow Leopard for the foreseeable future.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#108

Post by oflannabhra » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:31 PM UTC

xutopia wrote: post #4

I'm the first to lambast Apple when they push some crap but Lion is a minor improvement to the previous incarnation. I don't see any of the things he mentions. Those crashes make it sound like has faulty RAM because aside from Chrome crashing once I've never had an issue.

I agree. I just RMA'd some ram that was causing very similar issues to his (kernel panics, random apps crashing, etc). I'd never seen bad memory on OSX, so it was difficult to diagnose (besides the fact that it was a very recent upgrade).

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#109

Post by checker » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:35 PM UTC

vaporstun wrote: post #83

KirinDave wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experienced my own set of issues (oh god the kernel panics), but really, you haven't experienced anything he mentions? You don't feel like Mission control is a pretty big step backwards from even the old spaces UI (on a single monitor, it is)? You really haven't had problems or questions with the new fullscreen behavior? You think Launchpad is not pointless? You've _never_ had action misses on drag-and-drop to t…

"I've experienced my own set of issues (oh god the kernel panics), but really, you haven't experienced anything he mentions?" I'm in basically the same boat. I have experienced some issues, but none of the ones he mentions. Further, in my experience anyway, this has been the smoothest major OS version upgrade I've experienced. Obviously that won't be true for everyone, but it is for myself. "You don't feel like Missi…

Having owned an iPhone before owning a Mac, I appreciate Launchpad. I know there's quicker ways to launch, but it feels familiar to me and I like having it available.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#110

Post by webXL » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:36 PM UTC

rrrazdan wrote: post #91

lallysingh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, let's remember that lion's a $30 upgrade, which makes things sting quite a bit less.

I fail to see why I should lower my expectations from my Operating System because of the price.

Nobody asked you to, but if we're going to talk about expectations, then people would be much happier lowering theirs for major OS revisions or changes to any complex system for that matter. Every time a car line gets a new engine, you just know there are going to be issues for the first run that comes off the assembly line. No one was forced to upgrade from 10.6.8 to 10.7.0, or 9.x to 10.0 for that matter, or buy a new computer with it pre-installed. But people do and did because there's a perceived benefit. Early adopters always pay some sort of price though.